Ok tried…
Arbites shotgun = monster
Combat shotgun changes, not sufficient. They still cannot compete with the other weapons.
I planned to use them on Arbites… I would give a 10/10 for Arbites shotgun, and a global 4 for Combat shotguns.
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I thought they functioned well enough, but the loooong reloads still hold them back.
If we could just reload two shells at a time (a real technique), they’d be good.
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Arbites Shotgun is great, yeah. And definitely not overtuned. Come on, guys.
I just don’t get the Combat Shotguns though. Even with heavy building into them, it’s hard to figure out their role? Would actually like Fatshark to tell us what it’s supposed to do.
The spread is too tight for Hordes, and the single target damage is too low for Elites/Specials (I do have a build on Vet that uses the long range Shotgun for headshot spamming Specials though, but why is that a shotgun and not something more suited?).
The reloads and Special reloads on top of that do make them even more annoying.
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Damage is bad…
Seriously… it takes 2 to 4 times to kill a mutant than with something else.
So, even with the ammo increase… they cannot compete at all.
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Double Barrel buff was a nice-to-have and improved the one build I run it on (until I try it on Arbites). But, yeah, Combat Shotties are still a no-go.
I think the best idea I’ve seen floated is to just concede and make the special shells the vanillas for the 3 marks and tweak ammo and stats from there. I don’t think anyone is using any of them for the regular shots, happily at least.
I loved the mk9 before the buff and would still be using it now without the buff. Now its just better at everything, i am happy. Its great for specialists sniping, i even did a havoc 40 with it and got most specialist kills.
By all means buff them again, make me more powerful
I prefer the exterminator shotguns to bolters on arbites simply because they’re much quicker to pull out.
Vet has his quicker reload skill and on zealot, bolter is my go to weapon for mag dumping into monsters, because zealot can throw knives at any time while he’s reloading or using the melee weapon.
Of the shotguns, mostly MK3 (now testing with scatter shot and fire frenzy) but mk8 in CI VI games (with full bore + execution) to save ammo for specials.
2-4 shots to kill a Mutant is not bad. They’re very resistant to ranged weapons.
I don’t think they’re spectacular, but they’re definitely usable. I can never remember marks, but I usually run the 13-shot one, and it kills most things I want it to kill in 1-2 shots, which seems reasonable.
Could it have better damage? Yeah. But it would need to have more drop-off at range, they can’t be good at everything.
anything is usuable. Even a catachan sword before the buff (someone has shown a havoc 40 with this weapon).
Now can we make a bet? that there will be few people using a combat shotgun agri or lawbringer.
The Kantrael has always been not bad.
Actually they (except maybe the kantrael) are totally bad…
You say that 2-4 shots to kill a mutant is not bad… compare to other weapons. It takes a lot less time to kill a target.
The problem of shotgun is that they are the opposite of irl shotgun. You need to fire headshots to get something from them. Arbites shotgun doesn’t even need to hit head to get better results.
And when you are slow at killing something, it means that you cannot handle lot of things. So, not good in any high difficulty.
Really, I would like that the shoguns would be good enough that they would be used by a lot of people. But I am sure that few will use them. Exactly the same than before the buff. So, I am sorry, the buff has not changed the shotgun situation.
I don’t talk about double barrel assault shotgun. I don’t like this weapon, so I have not tested the changes,. And as I have not played before the buff, I am unable to put a judgment on the buff impact for them.
There’s still so many ranged worse than this, especially with the buffs now. They’re pretty reliable for picking specialists and killing shooters/elites and have the benefit of stagger that a lot of weapons don’t. Also in a similar manner to skullcrusher and his exclusive weapons, the advantage of combat shotguns (and the shotpistol) are no respite and man stopper blessing. I don’t think man stopper is that necessary anymore, but no respite is a huge source of damage. Its quite similar to skullcrusher but with ranged damage being needed to be inflicted mid stagger to apply and a much higher ceiling (140% vs 80% bonus damage). This is why its so useless on Hellbores it hurts while here on weapons that knock enemies down its brutal. More ammo means more double taps on heavy targets like reaper and mauler.
I’ve been using Arbites with Castigator’s reload on kill and Terminus Warrant’s extra cleave and I doubt I could pull similar damage with exterminator mk3 because its fall off is a lot worse and it has no no respite blessing. But the exterminator shotgun does cleave like 3 reapers so it is way more ammo effective there + you can damage crushers somewhat.
The exterminator shotgun is more conventional, and the Mk7 is way better than a slug shotgun but for ammo economy and sprint speed, but I don’t think the combat shotguns should be shaded anywhere near as much right now. There are better ranged slots, but not that many. People forget there’s a lot more than 5 guns in the game. Zarona is also able to headshot sniper in one crit at any distance, while still being able to hipfire one hit the trapper up close and knock dogs off teammates. That’s a pretty unique niche.
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Sound effects for arbites shotguns is so better. Combat shotguns still sound “plastic” and like a dry cough.
I took Accatran Mk IX CS with me to Havoc and I have to say feels far better than it used to.
Reload times are still a pain, but damage, cleave and mobility changes are noticeable. I would take the Sainted Gunslinger to improve reload speed, but it is too hard to reach.
I run the classic Maniac + Unyielding, and Full Bore and No Respite combo. Its pretty good at getting rid of shooters, ragers, elite gunners and many specials. The special is pretty useless. As with all special ammo you should be able to load a whole mag / tube whatever of special ammo in one go.
Is it meta? Nah, it’s pretty decent.
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The Arbites Shotpistol feels about as powerful or more than the normal shotguns but it has a boatload of other advantages ; really good baseline cleave, quicker reload, shield up while shooting, etc…
It’s the powah of paid DLC
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Most ranged weapons take awhile to kill a Mutant. 2 shots at close range with a shotgun is not bad at all in this.
Arbites shotguns are something else altogether, though; they’re way too strong.
After playing with them more (again), really the only problem on the current Combat Shotguns is a lengthy reload if you don’t have a good reload talent (If/when a zealot tree rework comes I pray Sainted Gunslinger is in a much better spot). The Agripp is absolutely insane right now, especially with it’s unyielding damage. The Accatran has very good close range damage, and it’s fire shot has utility of being a way to kill long range enemies, has really good stagger, can damage bluwarks through their shields, and can apply a DoT to bosses. The Zarona is still a good all rounder, although my opinion that it is weaker than the other 2 hasn’t changed. The duckbill shot is good for staggering groups but other than that it doesn’t excel in much.
I would worry that anymore buffs would push them, especially Agripp, into ludicrous ranges.
Vet with Tac Axe 7 and Accatran Combat shotgun is probably my favorite H40 loadout right now, it’s a ton of fun.
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Arbites is comically broken (in an OP way). It doesn’t mean you won’t die, but you have access to a lot survivability options, a useful companion and silly levels of dps. So much stuff is OP that I’m not convinced Fatshark will ever adjust it where it should be. Certain talents are just insane and the tree is pretty flexible so you can reach a lot of good ones.
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I prefer Agrip shotgun on Execution Order Arbites more than Exterminator/Shotpistol tbh, it’s way more ammo efficient and hold more shell than Arbites shotguns. It also can one shot most stuff even with lower damage.
The only advantage other shotguns have is the ability to guard of shotpistol, the brittle ammo on Mk VIII Exterminator and the duckbill shot pattern/shock round on MK III Exterminator.
Just played with Kantrael and, as I suspected, the gun is really good (did top damages, and tbh, I was not at my best).
Agri, there is a niche for it. Even if… there are better alternatives
But lawbringer… I don’t see what is the purpose of this gun
Objectively, they’re stronger than ever right? So that’s undeniable, and I should like them. I always liked the Agripiina or however it’s spelled, and used it on my zealot for a while. But I don’t really want to use them on Arb at least when the exterminator is right there, and it’s one of the best ranged weapons in the game.
Personally, the only horde-clearing ranged weapons I’ve ever used even a little were the purgation flamer on zealot with a throwing knife/knife build, the inferno staff on psyker (along with a strong elite killing sword) and the recon lasgun (if that even counts, I don’t use it for hordes), just because it’s strong and fun and works at a high level. So, the other two combat shotgun marks aren’t really things I vibe with personally. I want to like the one that sets things on fire, but the dot isn’t really strong enough to be as good as other options IMO.
I really value the ability to quickly kill specials/ranged elites in a ranged weapon, unless my melee/blitz can cover that. So, the agripiina is the only one I use. Am I missing out?
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