Possibility for improving weapon-feel against Vanguard's shields in all parts of the game

I feel that a feasible way to reduce player frustration with vanguards would be changing the way (particularly melee) weapons interact when damaging their shields to be separated from normal damage calculation, instead of just being a pretty beefy health gate.

Vanguard’s shields could have something different than a health bar, like a set durability amount which weapon attacks would deplete differently than health.

To start, vanguard shield’s should be much weaker, however all weapon shots / melee motions could have their own values for durability damage, separated apart from usual damage calculation done to health, ignoring damage boosts from talents or blessings, this would prevent totally trivializing their shields once given a weaker durability. This could also make destroying their shield with a given weapon mark feel consistent with any stat spread between any threat level. Motion values for weapon attacks against durability could also allow certain moves to shine in meeting the defenses of vanguard shields and destroying them, and a system like this would allow tweaking many different weapon’s effectiveness against shields specifically without skewing the balance against other enemies.

Strikedown melee attacks could be allowed particular effectiveness for breaking vanguard shields by dealing higher than usual durability damage than other moves, also perhaps charged strikedown attacks and more special actions could ignore shield ricochet similarly to certain deflect resistant weapon attacks which are popular against vanguards. Through this there is potential for bringing greater appreciation to less used weapon marks. I imagine this could be a viable implementation beyond the hypothetical addition of a shield durability mechanic.

Another frustration to be felt with vanguard shields is even once one breaks the shield with a melee attack it doesn’t feel good. I imagine a weapon attack which breaks the shield apart then no longer being deflected, continuing to cleave other enemies in the weapon’s path would notably improve the feeling of fighting vanguards.

Please share opinion of this, how it could affect the game (better or worse) or if I’ve not accounted for something important. I’ve not mentioned ranged weapons being given particular boons against shield durability through any manner because I don’t figure that necessary.

P.S. vanguards need have their visual designs updated, their shield’s visuals are kind of small compared to their effective size, and more importantly the usual scab & dreg enemies sharing their models 1:1 with vanguards creates confusion towards how much health and stagger resistance they actually have even after their shield is broken, and absolutely should be given a beefier look in some manner to reflect that.

I don’t think we need a whole new durability system for the shields, especially since they kind of already work the way you’re describing. They have a carapace health pool and most weapons deal more damage with strikedown or heavy attacks to carapace and so will they do to the shields.

As for the infinite hit-mass modifier from carapace, I’ve made some own suggestions that I think it to be stupid to be applied to all weapons regardless of what attack you’re charging, except for some blessings like Perfect Strike.

That I support. It would not so much be about to cleave through more targets on destroying the shield, but it would make for a better feeling cleaving through the breaking shield. Basically the same way as Brutal Momentum works when killing an enemy with a headshot.

They do have their own models, however while the Scabs are easy to recognize for their scarf, the Dregs can indeed look similar to normal Dreg melee units. However, I think that once their shield broke they should have the same hit-mass as the normal Scab/Dreg melee. They aren’t really a treat anyways without their shield but for consistency the hit-mass should be reduced.

how about push twice to open

The problem with the vanguards is that even without the shield they mountains of HP.

And hit-mass. They have like 3x the mass as normal Scab/Dreg melee units even without their shield.