Bosses often get killed after all of the elites and the horde is thinned out too and for the same reason. They’re generally the least dangerous and most easily managed enemy on the field. Is that also ridiculous?
Apples to oranges.
You ignore bosses because they pose the least threat, whereas vanguards survive in the thick of it by being unreasonably tanky.
I will attempt to be as non offensive as I possibly can. People really don’t understand the most basic concepts or is there other agenda at play?
Oh yeah, Big Vanguard is totally behind everything. Video game shield stocks are extremely lucrative.
I just don’t understand, why should anyone care that a non-dangerous mob is the last thing left standing? Is it somehow an affront to their sensibilities? Is the entire uproar just a mixture of self reporting about how many people are bad at melee and indignation that something is left standing after they go through the effort to click the horde a bunch of times?
Bulwarks still block more hits than they should and have that dreaded 1 frame shove (moves up to frame 0 on havoc) that nukes any amount of stamina instantly. These guys basically survive only to tell the tale of how their comrades got ripped up, which is still an indictment more of how fast ‘elites’ get ripped up than an actual problem. Unless you play Mortis (bizzarely the only case they seem to get HP buffed beyond that 1600/2100 HP pool) they really don’t do much. In Mortis you’ll have like 12 4000 HP scab vanguards in your face in late waves which is the only time they made me frown. Absolutely terrible when that DH is pushing you around and these guys stand there soaking hits for it.
Dreg Vanguards have 1625 in Auric and Havoc 21-40. Scab Vanguards have 2125 in Auric and Havoc 21-40.
Maulers have 3700 in Auric, scaling up to 5550 in Havoc 40.
It’s not even close. Vanguards are not remotely tough unless you are just whacking at their shields. Almost every melee weapon will 2-3 hit kill them from behind (and each hit will stagger them just long enough to pull it off).
I don’t have that much of problems with Vanguards in general, it’s not that they make the game too hard or anything. There are however a couple of problems I have with their design.
They are clearly still missing some hard stagger animations, like how are they standing after Ogryn bull rush that knocks even a Bulwark on his back?
While 3 or 4 of them can become a little bit annoying, it should never happen that a single player is focused by 15 of them. At this point, it’s just ridiculous and unless you have some kind of AoE, you will not be able to deal with them alone that easy, especially if you have a weapon that isn’t optimal against them. They will not kill you if play it right but it takes forever to kill them all and it’s just super annoying that it keeps happening, especially with randoms that don’t care about helping out.
They shouldn’t have the infinite hit-mass effect on their shields. I’m fine with them having a lot of hit-mass and that they block my light attacks, but when I play Ogryn with my Pickaxe, it’s just stupid that a single Vanguard can block my whole heavy swing and deny all damage to the horde that has enough cleave to go through 50 enemies.
They’re not.
I stand corrected. I could have sworn this only worked after their shield broke.
As an aside, this might answer a question that’s been bugging me. Is this reflected in the Psykanium when you put set it to Auric difficulty? I’ve wanted to make a Helbore build viable for the longest time and always find it feels weak in actual missions. In the Psykanium I can almost always one shot Maulers, but I don’t think I’ve ever done that in an actual Auric mission. 3700 would make sense. Same with Crushers. Psykanium 2 shot, in an actual mission 3 or 4.
I agree that pickaxe should be more effective against the shields.
It is, gotta lightspam em as god intended. Except Karl, Karl is fked, never lightspam Karl!
lol because they have tons of health???
Again, if a mook is being put into the same corner as A BOSS, shouldn’t that let you know it isn’t filling its role properly??
Except that the reason the monsters get killed last isn’t because they have a ton of health (there’s plenty of builds that delete them in a couple seconds and so on, and even then most competent builds can kill any monster in the game in under a minute).
The reason monsters get killed last is because they’re pretty much universally the least threatening thing in the room and can be safely ignored by all but 1 person with pretty trivial ease.
The same thing holds true for Vanguards. They’re non-threats that exist specifically to slow down horde clear, so you ignore them until the actual threats are dealt with and can spare the cycles to deal with the mostly irrelevant survivors of all the chip damage they may have absorbed.
TBH, there are plenty of ways to kill them, and plenty of weapons that do it with ease. Not sure what all the fuss is about. There are older mobs in the game that need fixing due to reach and laser type heat seeker rounds that are 1000 times worse than that of the vanguard.
depends by the boss, but also because yea it is easy just to clear horde while kiting the boss.
on havoc usually the faster a boss dies, the better, but it depends by the situation and place etc
chaos spawn is def the most problematic since it can combo people with flamers that usually spawn when there is a chaos spawn cause kinda scripted in that way
but yea if poxwalkers are just meant to bodyblock and being an obstacle, the vanguards are meant to slow down the horde clear, countering a bit the cleave