Itemization Overview - Dev Blog

[Ragnarok101]

It took me about 20+ hours to get a class from 0 to 30, iirc.

While Damnation matches might not be 100% to this, it should allow you to max out a couple of weapons or start experimenting with all of them.

[Infected_Animal1]

Wow quite a lot here, some great but some terrible and in desperate need of changes so here’s my thoughts (skip to the bottom if u want the tldr:

@FatsharkStrawHat

players simply have to use a weapon they like, which will result in the player progressing further in the Mastery track of said weapon’s family.

@FatsharkStrawHat

While progressing through the Mastery track of a weapon (or weapon family), players will receive Blessing Points. Blessing Points received through the Mastery track will allow players to unlock the Blessing of their choice.

While this sounds pretty good nowhere here does it say how many weapon xp we could get from a from a mission.

@FatsharkStrawHat

The player will go to the Shrine of the Omnissiah, where they will have a new option called “Sacrifice”. Players will ask Hadron (the NPC managing the Shrine, for the uninitiated), to teach them about a weapon family in exchange for weapons they do not wish to use, granting them experience for the Mastery track within the shotgun family. Players can give any type of weapons to Hadron from Redeemed Rarity (Green) onward, in order to progress in any given Mastery track. That said, if they sacrifice the right weapon family (i.e. the weapon family that they are trying to gain experience in), they will get extra experience.

How much xp can a player expect from sacrificing a weapon and how much does the tier or being of the same weapon family affect it? Would how far along on the family’s progression also affect how big a boost I get or would the amount of xp needed to jump to the next tier be consistent whether I’m on the first tier or the near the last

@FatsharkStrawHat

One good thing to remember is that with all the sweeping changes coming with Itemization Overhaul, we have been rethinking the in-game currency economy. This means changing a Blessing, Perk or even Consecrating (i.e. upgrading) a weapon will be cheaper than it was in the past. Since we are introducing the Empowerment mechanic that increases stats of weapons to their allocated maximum potential, we wanted to decrease the price of all other options at the Shrine of the Omnissiah.

Please tell me this won’t make the new empowerment stuff too expensive will it?

@FatsharkStrawHat

we’ve mentioned that when playing a new class for the first time, players will have to unlock the Mastery of weapons by levelling up their characters. However, Blessings are also tied to player accounts, not characters. If a player has been progressing with a Zealot and they move to a Veteran , the progress on the Blessings of the weapon these classes share will already be unlocked, and the Mastery progress will remain the same.

So weapon family’s progress is the same across all classes? ok that’s pretty good

@FatsharkStrawHat

We will not be removing any existing weapons. Existing weapons will remain exactly the same. The only difference is that players will be able to see their weapons’ stats potential. If a player’s weapons are not at their maximum potential, they will be able to upgrade them accordingly. We will not be removing any Blessings, Perks or anything else.

Another good decision, finally I can put my greys and greens to good use

@FatsharkStrawHat

What is the Power System?

This is the one part I me and others can agree is by far the worst thing of this new system due to the many questions but also lack of player involvement and that pic is a perfect example why.

• First is it possible in anyway to raise above the 80s or are those the absolute cap regardless with the “power number” just being an elaborate way to have perks blessings and modifiers equal number.
• Second the amount of points being given is pitiful at 6 especially since we can’t influence where they go. Again why this is bad for players but also screw over players who want a certain stat lower then others (like perg staff users)
• Also this system doesn’t seem to change much in the grand scheme of stuff as the modifiers max still seems to be 380 with no signs of being able to go above. This just seems like shuffled around numbers to get 380 in modifers and level 4 perks and blessings. Not a great sign when the rng this whole change was supposed to address is still there

@FatsharkStrawHat

The weapon rating in itself will not comprise Blessings and Perks as in the previous Itemization system. It will instead focus on the stats themselves.

@FatsharkStrawHat

Depending on the Power of the weapon itself, the cost for Empowering it will increase. The cost will increase by increments of a 100 Power, which means that costs will increase when a weapon will go from 100 to 200, and 200 to 300 etc. Therefore, the resources needed to Empower a weapon will also change depending on where a player is on the Power curve of a weapon, e.g. if a player has a weapon at Power 500, they will have to pay a higher cost in diamantine than in credits.

So it’s literally a marker for telling us to pay more… why?

@FatsharkStrawHat

Players might’ve seen from the early WIP screenshots where Modification points were initially part of the design of the Power system. The logic was to have a budget on each weapon combination, and that budget would increase each time players Empowered the weapon until a maximum was reached. We have decided to remove this feature.

Nice to see they can’t be bricked, now I just need the abilty to change the stats to my liking (0 modifier weapon when)

@FatsharkStrawHat

Switching Marks

So every weapon why buy is basically a base to change between the other marks. Great for lessening the grind but these great changes only further highlight the bad

@FatsharkStrawHat

As part of this update, we will extend the availability of specific weapon families to all human classes (Veteran, Zealot, Psyker).

@FatsharkStrawHat

Detailed List:

• Turtolsky Heavy Swords
  • Added also to Veteran and Psyker.
• Maccabian Duelling Swords
  • Added also to Veteran and Zealot.
• Orestes Assault Chainaxes
  • Added also to Psyker.
• Braced Autoguns
  • Added also to Psyker.
• Accatran Recon Lasguns
  • Added also to Zealot.
• Combat Shotguns
  • Added also to Psyker.

Have mixed feelings on this but that’s mainly due to the weapons and the wacky combos the more powerful ones can now achieve any weapon coming to zealot, hope we can at least see some buffs to the less powerful ones.

@FatsharkStrawHat

But in addition to the Credits, players will get additional crafting resources based on the rarity of the weapon sold. From Profane (white) to Annointed (blue) rarities, players will only get Credits back; at Exalted (purple) players will get Plasteel in addition to Credits; and finally, at Transcendent rarity (orange) players will get Diamantine added to the mix.

Good idea, just hope it gives enough to be worth it

@FatsharkStrawHat

Bulk Actions

@FatsharkStrawHat

Favourite Weapons

Fantastic changes but it’d be nice if we could have a way to directly search for specific weapons and have the option present weapon inventory in a more grid like manner so we can navigate it quicker.

@FatsharkStrawHat

some stores such as Brunt’s Armory will display slightly lower weapon quality by default - i.e. weapons from Brunt’s Armory will not be immediately at maxed power

Brunt has always been inconsistent and with the supposed grind this seems rather counter intuitive even with the new changes making a 380 easier, getting a 380 in the stats you want though will still be grindy especially for new players.

@FatsharkStrawHat

We want to encourage players to tinker and try out other weapons.

Then please nerf weapons that are over preforming like the plasmagun and buff underpreforming ones like the infantry lasgun, implement something to track weapon and blessing use if u have to because this system alone will do nothing to encourage them to be used if they’re still bad

@FatsharkStrawHat

Yes! There will be one cosmetic weapon to be earned per weapon after unlocking the penance by finishing a weapon’s mastery track.

What’s it look like, can we expect more free weapon cosmetics or will I need to stick to mods to use basic colors besides blue and red

@FatsharkStrawHat

No, we can not remove stats from weapons.

Then change that

@FatsharkStrawHat

Numbers can be tricky there because there are so many factors to account for, but yes, around 5 to 15 games would be enough to have access to T4. (That would be starting completely from zero, and without using the sacrifice feature.)

By the throne, that is way too much even with the other stuff that makes progressing faster. Lower it down to say 4 to 6. Players play more when they get to play with cool stuff and not spend all their time grinding

tldr:

1. Allow us to directly change weapon modifer stats to our liking (even if we want to lower a category by say 5 and place it else where)
2. Don’t make the empowerment stuff (too) expensive
3. Give us a decent amount of resourses for selling purple and higher weapons
4. Allow us to search directly for specific weapons in the weapon inventory (like mods already let us do)
5. Let us also turn the weapon inventory into a grid layout to make going through all our weapons easier (like mods used to do)
6. Keep brunt as is and instead make Melk sell better stuff
7. Make completing a weapon family faster and easier
8. Give us more free skins, I shouldn’t have to go to mods or pay cash to have a basic colors available besides blue and red
9. Do the other stuff people have also listed here, I’m sure they have useful ideas that could be added too

You’re on the verge of a pretty great update, don’t let it be ruined by such easy to fix issues

[Infected_Animal1]

Also add hub keybinds please, it’d be the world of convince for players who don’t like wasting time

[Mezmorki]

@FatsharkStrawHat

if a player has obtained 6/10 Tier 4 Blessings, the players should then be able to fully unlock (3x) Tier 4 blessings right away. The interesting thing with this migration system is that it acts a bit as a reset (in a good way).

Explain how this is “in a good way” ?

if I have 6/10 Tier 4 blessings today, I can apply these to my current weapons (lock restrictions aside) at a modest resource cost.

After the transition, I’ll only have 3/10 Tier 4 blessings that I can apply to my weapons at a modest resource cost. 6 is twice as much as 3 last time I checked.

More to the point, the Tier 4 blessings I’ve collected are MORE LIKELY to have been the good ones I want because they are good and I was willing to sacrifice a weapon with it to earn the blessing to apply to other weapons.

I’m supportive of the new system, but this statement feels like FS is trying to candy coat what can be, in realistic terms, a very real step backwards in terms of item progression. Don’t try to candy coat things like this.

[Berettadin]

In a word: amazing. Can’t wait.

[Flawless]

@Mezmorki

Explain how this is “in a good way” ?

It is good, because you can now choose which ones you have unlocked.

If you have a bunch of blessings that you do not care about, you can now pick the 2-3 that you do care about instead.

[Mezmorki]

@FatsharkStrawHat

Question for clarification:

If I have a a given blessing with Tier 3 + 4 in my library, the dev blog says that will grand me a full “subvisision” worth of mastery (so if the weapon has 10 blessings worth of mastery subdivisions I’d get one).

Am I correct in that if I have a Tier 3 + 4 and thus “maxed out the subdivision” for that blessing that Tier 1 + 2 versions of the same blessing provide no further value?

Is that correct? Are others reading it this way? Can you confirm?

[Mezmorki]

@Flawless

It is good, because you can now choose which ones you have unlocked.

If you have a bunch of blessings that you do not care about, you can now pick the 2-3 that you do care about instead.

But what if I have 6 already unlocked that I care about want to use across different builds… and now I can only pick 3 of those 6.

[Flawless]

@Mezmorki

But what if I have 6 already unlocked that I care about want to use across different builds… and now I can only pick 3 of those 6.

From what i understood, that would only be the case if you did not have any low tier blessings unlocked.
Currently owned low tier blessings also factor in to how many blessings you get to unlock after the update.

Also, you do not lose any of the weapons that you already have. And those weapons do not lose the blessings that they have on them.

[Mezmorki]

See my question I asked earlier of Fathshark a few posts up.

The issue, if I’m reading this correctly, is that if you “max out a blessing” the “overage” you have for that blessing by having multiple tiers unlocked currently doesn’t translate into more mastery, it’s just lost.

There is ONE subdivision of mastery progress for EACH blessing in the pool (9 blessings = 9 subdivisions). If you have tier 1, 2, 3, and 4 for a given weapon, you max out ONE subdivision (even though a tier 3 + 4 alone would be enough) and the overage is lost.

[Primaul]

It would be nice if you people at fat shark treated the weapons like it’s a pen and paper game and standardized the weapon stats or let us choose the stat distribution so that we actually have agency. has things are right now its Brunt’s slot machine and gotcha machine casino not an armory.

the logic behind this is parts and the fact that weapons we use are not being made by hand at a forge using feel and eye measuring. they are mass produced and made with machines and proper tools at the level of an interstellar civilization.

also, random magazine sizes and spare ammo needs to go away no army since the invention of the lever gun and mass production and had random magazine and clip capacities they use standardization so it’s the same thing no matter where what.

[Mezmorki]

@Flawless

Also, you do not lose any of the weapons that you already have. And those weapons do not lose the blessings that they have on them.

Which is why, if you have a blessing you care about, you might NOT want to scrap it ahead of the update because you might not be able to get it back (assuming other blessings are a higher priority for you to pick at the onset) until you grind out more mastery first.

I think long time players are going to surprised by how little mastery they might end up with after this update if the numbers work as they appear to.

[Flawless]

@Mezmorki

The issue, if I’m reading this correctly, is that if you “max out a blessing” the “overage” you have for that blessing by having multiple tiers unlocked currently doesn’t translate into more mastery, it’s just lost.

If that is the case, the blessing migration would indeed be a straight downgrade for the player.

Based on older statements as well as this statement from the OP:

@FatsharkStrawHat

we will look at each Tier obtained by the player for each Blessing and allocate its corresponding segment of experience to the Mastery track.

i thought that each blessing that we currently own, will translate into mastery xp. So we just gain mastery based on the blessings that we currently own, unlocking blessing points via mastery rank ups and allowing us to freely allocate those blessing points to any blessing of our choice (within the rules, having to unlock a few low tier blessings before getting to T4).

[Mezmorki]

@Flawless

If that is the case, the blessing migration would indeed be a straight downgrade for the player.

Yes - hence asking @FatsharkStrawHat for clarification since this nuance wasn’t explicitly clarified in the OP.

This also means that for weapons with a high number of new blessings being added to their pool, even if you completely maxed all blessings today under the new system you’d only be 50% towards mastery.

Also consider this… each blessing might be “capped” in terms of how much mastery you can get from it (as I suspect), but then you need to invest at least 15 mastery points to unlick Tier 4 blessings (5 at tier 1, 5 at tier 2, five at tier 3 to get to tier 4). So you’ll need 16 mastery to just be able to unlock 1 tier 4 blessings.

Now consider this… we don’t know what the mastery bar looks like. Are these mastery points earned at an even rate or are they curved towards the end? Getting 4 subdivisions of mastery may not even equal 16 points in terms of earned mastery on the progress bar.

I’m glad we’re moving towards a more deterministic system, but I’m preparing myself for a let down in terms of how much mastery progress I’ll really have post update.

[Ryshek]

My amped status is at maximum. Cannot wait O=

[Mezmorki]

@Flawless

Based on older statements, i thought that each blessing that we currently own, will translate into “amount of mastery worth x blessing points”. So we just gain mastery based on the blessings that we currently own, unlocking blessing points via mastery rank ups and allowing us to freely allocate those blessing points to any blessing of our choice.

That was the thinking earlier, yes. That each blessing at each tier was pooled against a total amount of blessings, and everything contributes somewhat to your new progress.

Now it seems that each blessing only pools together your current tiers of blessings for just that type, and maxes it out, potentially wasting the overage.

I’ve been a few weeks now casually buying up Tier 1 + 2 blessings to extract from the armory (spent a few million dockets all told) - but a lot of this effort was wasted if I already had tier 3 + 4 blessings of that particular one.

[Mezmorki]

@Flawless

So we just gain mastery based on the blessings that we currently own, unlocking blessing points via mastery rank ups and allowing us to freely allocate those blessing points to any blessing of our choice

See the continuation of this paragraph:

if a player knows a Tier 4 but not Tier 1, 2 or 3, the migration system will automatically grant a bit over two additional segments, bringing it to over 75% of the segment’s progress for that Blessing. In a nutshell, if a player has a Tier 4 Blessing they will automatically get a bit over 75% of the progress corresponding to the Blessing on the Mastery track. Similarly if a player has a Tier 3 Blessing they will receive exactly 75% of the progress. And if they know Tier 3 and 4 of a Blessing (but not Tier 1 and 2), then they will get 100% of the progress for that segment.

So each blessing is assigned a “segment” and once you hit 100% that’s it. Notice a Tier 4 blessing gives a little over 75% of a segment and a Tier 3 blessing gives exactly 75% of a segment, and the combination of the two only gives 100%. It does not give 150+% with the overage going to overall progress.

[Flawless]

@Mezmorki

Yes - hence asking @FatsharkStrawHat for clarification since this nuance wasn’t explicitly clarified in the OP.

FS should have some scientist or lawyer proofread their explanations to make sure that they are precise and unambiguous.
Or just anyone who is frequently using precise language.

Official statements should be precise, unambiguous and factually correct.
There still are many blessing descriptions that are flat out wrong.
Such as any blessing stating “…up to x% power…”, when in reality, it is x% power per stack (and has been for at least ~1 year).

I am just a random forum user and even i proofread most of my forum posts a few times to make sure that i am using precise language, and am properly communicating my message.
That is why most of my posts have multiple edits.

@FatsharkStrawHat I frequently proofread theses, presentations and such for my peers (spelling, grammar, coherency, comprehensibility, formating, factual errors, etc.).
You guys should have someone doing that for ingame descriptions and announcements.

[Mezmorki]

@Flawless

FS should have some scientist or lawyer proofread their explanations to make sure that they are precise and unambiguous.

FWIW, I’m a boardgame designer so writing clear rules and instructions is really important. These sloppy/ambiguous descriptions drive me crazy.

[Mitradraug]

Encouraging players’ agency and still saving RNG in the form of potential max stats instead of allowing players to change stat bars however they want which is very easy to do. If I want to dump mobility/defense/ammo stat for ammo spent blessings procs let me do it. And also return hordes on timer (meaningless intentional change) and fix events spawns the issue exists almost half a year.