Havoc = objectively still wasted dev time

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
121

That’s why I said I’m unsure about how many it should take.

Being able to consistently carry your own weight and being able to clutch when your teammates can’t pull their own weight are two very different things, and strikes going off of mission failure alone don’t account for that.

That’s why knockdowns are a better representation of ability.

1 silent trapper net? Sure ok, that happens. But consistently going down because a player makes bad decisions, doesn’t optimize their build, or doesn’t utilize melee effectively starts to build a pattern.

122

Yeah. Let’s agree to disagree on this. :slight_smile:

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123

the whole strike concept has the major flaw that havoc cant be clutched like other modes.

no, i’m not talking stealth zealot peekaboo crap, but honest ass to the wall duke it out with the whole stuff thrown at you.

that way you get “striked”(struck/stricken/stroked?!?)
cause randoms fkk up.

you only got access to randoms? fkk you thrice i guess :man_shrugging:

very first day in the very first game a braindead zealot blew the match in 20 seconds going zoom through hav30 until we had more bosses than regulars around us.

since theres no way to prevent such vermin wasting other peoples tries, why should others be punished for roaches doing roach stuff?

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124

Simple: Too many things can go wrong with it.

Say you’re the odd man out - a random. You’re skilled, but you join another group, maybe a trio, maybe another random and you join up with a duo. The duo or trio already has a flow; they instinctively understand how the others play and know their roles. You’re the outlier. You go down more because you’re not used to their rhythm. You’re still skilled. When you’re with your regulars, almost none of you go down. But now, these randos you’ve joined stay up - you’re the one dropping.

So what does that mean? Are they carrying you? No. You’re just as skilled. You’ve proven that with your regulars. This group just doesn’t mesh with you.

I’ll admit, it’s not always like that. Sometimes you’re just off. Havocs are way harder than Auric Maelstroms. There’s no real “warm-up” for that level of difficulty. And if you’re having a bad day, you can’t just quit - not with the current strike system.

The proposed system removes penalties for quitting, but there’s no way to join a mission in progress. So if someone leaves, you could avoid punishing those who stayed and punished the one who quit. This would also leave room for someone to “take one for the team.” How do you design around that without punishing the people who stayed?

There’s also tactical downs, where if you’re short on ammo, or you’ve got too many wounds and you know the group can clear the next room, take a tactical down to reset your wounds and ammo.

There’s more issues: if a strike requires multiple downs and the whole team wipes, one player’s mistake causes everyone to get one down. No harm no foul for one down, right?

If you’re running with randos, trolling and toxicity become real risks. How do you design around that?

This system also rewards stealth gameplay as all you have to do is hit your combat ability and put all of your aggro on someone else for them to deal with the bite you chouldn’t chew while they’re also dealing with what’s on their plate.

What is being suggested, with strikes on downs, sounds good on paper. Strikes based on downs are far less stable in design than the current system - and far too complicated. There’s too many ways to cheat and abuse the system.

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125

there are definately players that dont click, had a recent match recorded (still salvaged the run) but then again outside havoc, no one bats an eye about a failed match.

strikes are the most stupid thing they could add if a good chunk of the playerbase has no “regulars”

infinite tries = no water off my back when stuff goes wrong.

got my strutting-title and brass filled chest already (not that anyone would care)

havoc 40 should be available at any point of the day, how’s one supposed to record some content if he still has to work for a living?

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126

What are you talking about? If you have 40, you can play at any time of the week. If school/work is a problem then why can’t you play on the weekends? Fatshark can’t control when people are available to play. I haven’t seen you in any of the social discords that I know of for Darktide. Why don’t you try asking around for randoms?

Forums are great for posting ads for regulars as well. But I haven’t seen one post for it yet out of all the people talking about how bad it is because no regulars, but everyone here is complaining about it. Why don’t you all join up?

127

and you wont, ever.

gaming is essentially with such close friends i consider family.
banter, cussing, mean language and impolite callouts included.

some dude hitting the floor multiple times, i dont hold back if im angry.

this aint suited for any discord and i dont trust strangers in that either.

nah, playing as a duo, discord is fine and helps.
neither do i want to “socialise”, gaming is for getting away from the crap outside
nor would i want to watch my language 24/7 lest someone took offense.

how so? 10am-18pm eu random pool is virtually useless.
“Mittagsschicht” i tend to carry auric maelstroms to get some content recorded.

evening is better though say we fail 6x thats 2 demitions =38
i’m on a bad streak but want to continue playing (this aint tarkov where i dont play as to not lose my gear at one point)
i end up at 34…

all for wanting to play the game? screw that

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128

I play with a couple people regularly who are from the EU. But, I don’t think this is the issue. In another thread you’re talking about how you don’t like being on comms for whatever reason that is.

A lot of what you’re writing is that you just want to be the center of success and this mode doesn’t really let you do that as you need to find a reliable team you can trust. Otherwise, you’re throwing your odds with random people which yields random results.

129

Taking the 1% situations in 1% mode is just objectively not enough.
Without 3 other people DSing you wouldnt even get to those boss rushes.
And bosses can be dealt with other means as well, they are the least dangerous elite+ thing in Darktide.

But those are all beside the point where a toothpick sword oneshots crushers in the same time thunderhammer is only 1/3 done

130

We had an Ogryn, and I was using a Devil’s claw. I don’t recall what the other two were using.

But, again, I’d love to see any footage of a DS killing 3 crushers in the time it takes a thunder hammer to kill just one.

Where are you getting these numbers from?

131

A decaying ladder is fundamentally just not an appropriate mechanism for a Coop PvE game. It’s by far the #1 complaint about Havoc, and you won’t find one in another similar title for a reason, it’s the wrong tool for the job, simple as.

Mostly it deters people from playing, reinforces people into playing stale meta-builds, and generates tons of drama and toxicity in a title that had previously avoided a scoreboard over exactly these concerns.

Removing it will almost certainly increase player engagement with Havoc, which right now stands at a few dozen Sweatlords across each server playing across a narrow band of hours.

If your studio’s brand new high-profile feature game mode is only getting a handful of people to play, and largely only during peak hours, that’s an indication that engagement is poor and the game mode probably has some pretty major problems.

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132

I know I know, its the evil tanner yes and all those unattainable in high diff disrupt destiny stacks..

When he fights crushers 2 are dead before you even charged that TH, and in good conditions 3rd is dead as well.

Here, a weapon that is BETTER IN EVERYTHING except full stationary horde clear (lol) than TH - is even better at killing bosses

TH WILL get you through any difficulty if you are good enough ofc, DT isnt a hard game.
Please stop the cope that TH is somehow secretly good okay?

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133

Remind me, how many levels does it drop each week from inactivity?

Quite; that’s very true. I recognize the argument about what toxicity scoreboard would bring if forced upon the entirety of the playerbase.
That is, opposed to having a game mode for those who seek a greater challenge requiring you to use every resource available to you: teamwork, meta builds, team composition, etc. You don’t have to have these things to play the optional endgame content, but it certainly makes it easier. That’s the nuanced difference between the argument of toxicity with scoreboards and havoc difficulty.
Though, I would think that if you found some people to play with, (you’re the third person I’ve spoken to about potentially not having people to play with, this morning) that would make the notes play a little differently. I don’t think that among friends you’ll find much toxicity. META is always in demand and it’ll always exist. META is symptomatic of a challenge. META demands you to play around the build. A lack of META does the opposite - use any build you like, it doesn’t really matter. The whiplash I see on the forums is something I’m still adjusting to.
To recap - it’s not lost on me that it can be hard to find a group. It’s not lost on me that Party Finder is more often than not, empty.
That doesn’t mean Havoc isn’t being played. In fact, I would say I wish I was more surprised to see that no one has made a thread of any sort trying to recruit other players to be regulars for a team. Instead, the forums are being used to complain about a problem that can easily be solved or worked on.
Something else that pops into my mind is that yes, Havoc 40 is for the “1%” as people have mentioned. But really, there’s no other place for them/us. THere’s no other place where they can be pushed just as hard. People still have access to what Havoc has to offer at varying levels of difficulty. For the most part (people have described instances in which they’re lucky to break the mold) so long as you don’t utilize every tool you have and take the initiative in finding consistent players to squad up with for these challenging difficulties, you’re going to have a hard time. There’s no way around that.

134

Is your complaint that TH is too weak, or that DS is too strong? I’m confused.

135

Both.
TH is THE SLOWEST non ogryn weapon in the game. That has most of its power locked behind power attack which is only single target.
No mobility, no crit, no weakpoint damage, no attack speed - all of these are S tier stats and TH is dead last on them for zealot.

Does zealot have toughness reduction on heavy slow hits?
No, he has it for crits.
Does zealot have multiplicative damage for non weakpoint hits?
No, he has it for weakpoint+crits
Does zealot have keystones that was designed for SLOW weapons?
No, all of them work objectively better on fast weapons.

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136

also TH needs PAs to maneuver hoards or access H3 for ironhelm and its stamina base and push costs do not reflect the importance of pushes.

for example branx can use PA to access H2 for clear and it has one of the highest ogryn stamina bases

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137

From what I remember playing of the zealot, TH has great cleave though, great range, too. Sounds to me it’s a heavy, versatile weapon.

Barring that. It’s just currently (if it’s as poor as you describe) just the bottom of the meta now, just like the autopistol was/is.

138

My point exactly. :skull:

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139

“You are a sad, strange little man. You have my pity. Farewell!”

140

Juice my vid

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