splitting already dwindling playerbase is bad
Easy.
Boons: topside wastelander boosters that get flushed out of your system alongside rad stimm and whatever else you picked up after getting back to the ship. Following the same logic that random stims you pick up in normal mode could even remove corruptionâŚetc.
Altars: illegally modified weaponsâŚetc. that are considered tech-heresy(even if practical) so are again confiscated when you get back to the ship, or even thrown away before that.
In addition: you start with grey/profane weapons because you were smuggled into the AO, there was too much flak even for Masouzi. Put 100% stat and impossible/op blessings in those illegal weapons at the top tier. For example maybe a normal devilâs claw sucks against carapace but give it a chaos-wastes blessing of some kind and itâs suddenly doing massive dmg against carapace on a parry(for example: after 5 repeated weakspot hits, the next parry riposte ignores armor and does 300% dmg).
Bonus points for forcing players to start out in prisoner garbs and appearance get upgraded alongside boon progression.
Curses: environmental contaminationâŚetc.
IF fatshark wanted to make something good for once, they could have done it.
I donât know. Itâs what they did, itâs what we have. This doesnât mean we wonât get CW-adjacent Expedition at some point, but the intention with this feature was to, I think, provide a generally more time-condensed experience, since CW was requiring an inexorbitant amount of time to finish for an average player, making the entire experience flawed for all but people with enough dedicated time and seeking a different experience than what Adventure game mode (regular maps) had provided.
it means itâs extremely unlikely
You donât have to run citadel 24/7, you could choose the shorter runs for CW.
Funny thing is the current timer is something people complain about.
I donât agree, but fair.
Citadel is barely longer than any other CW expedition - itâs more about the finale taking more than 3-4 minutes to complete and everything else was either about map choices or pacing, and people being quick about their wits to make fast decisions regarding upgrades.
Because people donât want to compromise, despite what the design and storytelling entails - if anything, some people will be filtered off the mode, and some will adapt to its rules, and either is fine.
it took them that long to change their âcrafting systemâ remember?
which means itâs way longer, with the whole run taking 40-60 minutes.
There is actually less of a decision for upgrade for citadel runs because it basically guarantees reds at the end.
Or rather, the storytelling is just there to support the poor design.
People will be filtered off the bad design, sure; but I rather have a good game.
For reference helldivers 2 has typically(can be shorter) 40 minutes soft mission timer(you lose respawns and ship support, can still play and extract normally)
Instead of ârad stimms running out,â âincreasing enemy activity making safe extraction less possible over timeâ is more reasonable and would support getting time limit extended after completing POIs.
For me expeditions just confirmation that âchaos wastesâ was outsourced to third party devs. And now fatshark just tries to recreate tech of supperior civilazation. Roguelike part with mortis trials, and now dynamic maps with expeditions. Thats explain why original CW didnt have much content updates all this years(i remember only 1). They simply just cant do it.
I think the story element jumps off from discovering the intel from newest map into tech remnants = tech theme; either new class or dark mechanicum units. The vaguery of âwhat else might they findâ to any other new enemy faction possible the GSC tease from new map too.
Not sure if the later zones reveal anything but seems like these could be a little more directed into several new maps and added to core game.
âŚits so weird Swagger is the only person in safe room⌠no locals???
there were some, they just donât talk much if at all
really missing the opportunity to buy illegally modified tech-heresy weapons from shady locals with weird looking foreheads
Swagger moved all the ammunition supplies on the entire map to his little den to sell, and even brought the medical station back. I will definitely take him to the military court on the grounds of misappropriating military supplies. 
The final expedition mission has 5 sections to it making the timer 35 minutes long
If they reworked expeditions a bit, they could make it so half of them are more like chaos wastes length and half are the shorter version,
the sanctuaries can be reworked to have more roguelike elements by porting over the perks from mortis trials, with 5+ sanctuaries they could make some interesting perk build trees
and for the rewards it would be good if they did my initial hope which was crafting materials for gun sights and lights
itâs not that big a jump for fatshark to do any of that but instead they release this garbage
People were coping about Chaos Wastes for DT after they introduced Mortis, imo. There is no way FS would introduce second roguelike mode, cause why they spend time veloping the first one from the start?
FS just follows some internal roadmap, year one this, year two that, because some marketing analysis manager said this is how it should be.
Yep. add in Challenge modifiers too from Havoc and make it so that the roguelike buffs you can get at the deadside sanctuary will make it believable enough (without the influence of Sefoni the psyker) and temporary enough (so that you would start over each run).
Add in some form of leaderboards and rankings cause thats what makes people keep playing Havoc so add that for here too. Its not about making a new mode, its about fixing THIS mode instead
Yes - and what Iâm going to type is not justifying the decisions theyâd made - but thereâd been some time constraints that DT seemed to suffer from for whatever reason, which meant that reworking crafting didnât seem worthwhile before giving people builds to experiment with in the first place.
They could have had either a barren game with fixed crafting (barren character builds-wise naturally), or a game that functions and provides experiences to people, at the cost of having a RNG-dependant progression. In my view, theyâd made the right call to deliver it the latter way, i.e., have character skill builds done through Patch 13 first, and a year later deliver Ul&L.
And thatâs on top of having to release the game on consoles, likely on the merit that 1) it generates revenue the company desperately needed and/or contracts with whichever firms the ports were made for, and 2) that reworking crafting needed a thorough rework, and thatâs a lot of effort. In comparison - making people have character builds and a skill tree is mostly just implementing new features on top of whatâs already worked.
Iâd argue that Citadel finale length was the least important factor about the length of an entire expedition - like sure, itâs resulted in longer runs, but runs were 50-80 minutes in length already, depending on multiple factors, and not many people had had that much time to allocate to one experience only. The numbers Iâd provided are anectodal and/or based on gut feelings of mine by the by - Iâd never measured the length of my runs, but Iâm more-or-less aware of how long they took and how unrealistic itâs for an average person to commit that much time for a single experience in their Tide game, and in one sitting (imagine trusting random people to not interact with the CW map or the shopâs button while youâre AFK).
Maybe it is - I donât know. Frankly I donât mind the timer - it makes the runs feel like they have stakes and encourage you to play riskier, or play around the fact that you can extract early. Itâs fun for me to have systems to interact with, rather than âalways win everything, every time" kind of experience that Adventure provides nowadays.
In the end it comes down to pushing players to commit to certain actions - the increased enemy activity would accomplish the same goal, only youâd 1) not be as time-starved otherwise, and 2) thereâd be only so much time before youâd slip and either lose, or your team be missing a teammate due to a poor decision being made.
I frankly donât care much about the storytelling aspect, but itâs always been an important thing for FS to embed in their designs, and I think I understand why they did this, which is why Iâm not seeing it as an inherently flawed idea. People will talk that itâs adversary to Adventure design of level progression, sure; or maybe that itâs copying HD2 (which I havenât played so I will not talk about it) - maybe theyâll change it, but I donât mind it in any way. Just remember that itâs always rework weâre talking about, and the devs are starved for resources to spend on the matter.
they still had a barren game with fixed crafting when crafting was almost fixed. (still canât craft trinkets wtf)
thatâs a bingo, this is the real reason they didnât fix crafting or rather delayed it for so long
you canât argue that; because this was the most backtrack-inducing part, that and straight up out of the main path chest on top of those stairs, you know the one.
without citadel(and people going back to red upgrades once they got enough coins) itâs a lot shorter and has less total boons/coins, which is why I avoid the other expeditions mostly. If a shorter expedition has the same amount of power-fantasy possibility(read: same amount of upgrades, chestsâŚetc.) then I would play that.
In conclusion: more boons less duration == fine. Thus the âchaos wastes is too longâ is not a relevant reason to not have cw-adjacent mode in karktide.
faster and more numerous enemy spawn makes the run feel like they have stakes
the timer didnât need to be a hard timer
players already want to extract with the most loot possible as quickly as possible, more so as soon as they found out thereâs no ammo pickup.
or at least they would if there was any meaning in that beside just unlocking more zones.
they could spin the story however they want like what I did in numerous threads regarding what would be lore-friendly chaos wastes features
I canât disagree; Iâm also puzzled by what is happening to trinket rework that was teased by one of the CMs - at this point - probably 1.5 years ago.
Just so weâre clear - Iâm not against making FS remake CW in Darktide with my claims - itâs more so to portray what might be going on in terms of how Expeditions are structured in terms of their time constraints; and regardless of what Citadel v regular maps entailed in terms of average completion time, the time that a player could allocate to CW made it a game-mode that mostly catered to people that had that time to begin with.
Its target audience wasnât people that could spend hour+ on a run, and maybe thatâs why Expeditions are shorter. Or why we got 2 Operations maps that are also relatively shorter than regular Adventure maps last.
They could - I wouldnât mind it.
technically Expeditions has roguelike elements so its similar to a second roguelike mode despite how they say its similar to Helldivers.
No to chaos wastes in DarkTide. Bad mode in VT2, even worse in DarkTide.
A data point to consider: in the 130k reviews, of which 87.6k are in English, CW is only mentioned in 169 of those reviews. Only 6 since expeditions announced.