# Why should veteran have lasgun specific talents?
**URL:** https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401
**Category:** General Discussion
**Created:** [December 1, 2023, 7:21pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401 "2023-12-01T19:21:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Ryshek](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Ryshek)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2023, 7:21pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/1 "2023-12-01T19:21:03Z")
The weapon blessings just don’t really feel like they balance this out for autoguns or any other guns really…
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### Author:  [@Tzcheese](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Tzcheese)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2023, 10:57pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/2 "2023-12-01T22:57:50Z")
It’s only one talent, but I agree it’s pretty stupid. Does any other class have a talent like this that’s linked to a specific weapon type?
They’re leaning way too hard into this “predefined fantasy” thing IMO. You’re either a marksman, a squad leader or a budget zealot.
A lot of the talents do lend themselves to other guns, though only if they’re headshot types. If you don’t want to headshot all day every day you can gtfo and play gun ogryn like the unrefined clod you are (Sarcasm. Give me my \*\*\*\*ing auto-reload back fatshark!).
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### Author:  [@dragomusic](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/dragomusic)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2023, 11:02pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/3 "2023-12-01T23:02:20Z")
> [@Tzcheese](#):
>
> budget zealot.
I still heavily object to this phrase, as imo hybrid vet is sufficiently different and strong enough to differentiate it from Zealot. You still have a bigger focus on ranged combat, and if you take survivalist you have much more ranged sustain damage as well.
Pair bottom right tree with Ex stance and you have a strong cloae range bruiser that fulfills a different role than really any zealot build. (Maybe not Blazing Piety IAG zealot but I don’t have much experience with that.)
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### Author:  [@UnLimiTeD](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/UnLimiTeD)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2023, 11:21pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/4 "2023-12-01T23:21:10Z")
Melee vet can be pretty similar to zealot, just sacrificing survivability for the ability to take any weapon against any enemy. _Shovellife!_🕶
That said, I don’t mind at all having a single talent only affecting a bit over a third of the ranged weapons vet has theoretically available.
Actually, the vet’s focus on not just weakspots, but also getting rending and brittle in multiple places is a rather defined mechnical identity, one that already allows a focus on weapons you normally wouldn’t regal with attention.
For all I care, they can add an alternative talent adding a passive bonus to autoguns.
Though that would be significantly less affected weapons than the lasers. Maybe it’s a remnant of the original plan to have keystones based around specific weapon types? I’d have loved to see those, honestly.
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### Author:  [@Tzcheese](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Tzcheese)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2023, 11:37pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/5 "2023-12-01T23:37:05Z")
Point is that if you want to excel at melee, you’re on the wrong class. Being able to use your gun a little more than that other class isn’t really relevant there.
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### Author:  [@Reginald](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Reginald)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2023, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/6 "2023-12-01T23:45:04Z")
But vet plays extremely different when doing melee, he hits very hard and rends. But hes generally slower all around and less survivable. Its very different and i like it.
> [@Ryshek](#):
>
> The weapon blessings just don’t really feel like they balance this out for autoguns or any other guns really…
The Imperial guard veteran having one talent in the whole tree for lasguns (the imperial guard weapon) is fluffy and cool.
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### Author:  [@Ryshek](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Ryshek)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2023, 11:53pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/7 "2023-12-01T23:53:13Z")
Yeah, but why not make it affect all vet guns? What’s the reasoning?
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### Author:  [@Tzcheese](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Tzcheese)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2023, 11:57pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/8 "2023-12-01T23:57:49Z")
“But my lasgun marksman fantasy!!!1!”
That’s literally it.
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### Author:  [@Orome](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Orome)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2023, 11:57pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/9 "2023-12-01T23:57:58Z")
Erm, sorry to break it to you bud, but every class has weapon specific talents. They’re just not as obvious.
Tell me, what good is +30% impact zealot talent on a knife or tactical axe? Or “hit multiple targets” talents for any assassin weapon?
Finesse damage from scrier’s gaze? Yes, its totally not focusing entirely on the knife and dueling sword.
Never played ogryn so no idea about him but im willing to bet he also has talents that only work for specific type weapons.
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### Author:  [@Orome](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Orome)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2023, 12:17am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/10 "2023-12-02T00:17:17Z")
And to explain why this talent only affects las weapons. Lets for the sake of argument make it affect every weapon in the game :
With extremely high crit chance, both boltgun and plasma gun now have nearly infinite ammo and become obsolete. Now in matchmaking you see nothing but vets running either weapon and nothing else.
Ok, what if we exclude these 2? so every weapon except bolt and plasma.
Autoguns now with infinite-ish ammo take the throne for most useful weapons. Want a sniper gun? why use helbore when you have headhunter autogun with its increased rate of fire. Before you actually had to aim, but with infinite ammo? who cares, spray and enjoy the mahem.
recon rifle? no longer needed, since braced autogun can outdamage it in every way, you pay with accuracy though so this is where infantry autogun comes in in its infinite ammo, superior damage, range and spread.
Shotguns… Oh boy, now that i think about it, Kantrael with spreadshot and cleave blessings? HOLY OMNISSIAH that would be a sight to behold.
Now do you understand why it only affects lasguns?
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### Author:  [@Nish](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Nish)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2023, 12:41am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/11 "2023-12-02T00:41:10Z")
> [@dragomusic](#):
>
> I still heavily object to this phrase, as imo hybrid vet is sufficiently different and strong enough to differentiate it from Zealot.
It’s budget Zealot. No stun immunity, less mobility, less defensive ability, and less offensive power. In patch 14 VoC melee Vet was actually on par with Zealot, now it’s not, not even close.
You take +25% Close-range damage and Mobility keystone and you sit on a comfortable +35-45% close-range damage with FtoF rending on demand while having twice the mobility, clutch potential, and survivability.
The only reason to go right-side melee Vet is to play around with PS.
> [@Reginald](#):
>
> But vet plays extremely different when doing melee, he hits very hard and rends. But hes generally slower all around and less survivable. Its very different and i like it.
A lot less survivable, it’s no contest at all. It also doesn’t deal more damage or have anything really to make up for the speed deficit.
I’m memeing around with a melee build and it’s quite funny to see how much Ogryns and Zealots can leave me in the dust damage-wise while I have 10x less survivability and a lot less mobility.
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### Author:  [@Molonious](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Molonious)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2023, 1:00am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/12 "2023-12-02T01:00:47Z")
Fatshark ditched their original 2.0 Vet Talent Tree for patch 13 over realizing weapon-specific talents weren’t what they wanted to do, but kept the Lasgun ammo one for some reason. It’s definitely welcome for Las weapons, but also doesn’t seem to jive with the few public statement’s regarding the dev team’s direction.
Unfortunately they borked that up, borked up Veteran 3.0, and so we’ll see if it survives the inevitable Vet 4.0 rework.
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### Author:  [@Frish](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Frish)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2023, 1:02am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/13 "2023-12-02T01:02:02Z")
Just gonna interject to say I resent this speak of “melee Vet” \< Zealot.
They are quite different classes and play different roles, and not played in a vacuum where melee =/= never using a gun.
So it’s just Vetean vs. Zealot at that point and ain’t nobody got time for that.
💭_i also love my melee vet_💭
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### Author:  [@Reginald](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Reginald)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2023, 1:58am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/14 "2023-12-02T01:58:27Z")
> [@Nish](#):
>
> A lot less survivable, it’s no contest at all. It also doesn’t deal more damage or have anything really to make up for the speed deficit.
My testing seems to show they deal about the same amounts of damage, I’m getting comparable numbers with comparable weapons. The squishiness is the main downside. Vet just has awful staying power right now because outside of ability spam (stealth/voc) you basically just have to get elite kills to get sustain. lets hope patch 15.2 fixes that with the…third? rework.
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### Author:  [@Nish](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Nish)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2023, 2:00am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/15 "2023-12-02T02:00:10Z")
> [@Reginald](#):
>
> My testing seems to show they deal about the same amounts of damage, I’m getting comparable numbers with comparable weapons.
It’s not my experience at all.
Just to clarify, by testing you mean “white room testing” or play experience?
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### Author:  [@Reginald](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Reginald)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2023, 2:02am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/16 "2023-12-02T02:02:32Z")
In both cases. Someone asked me to mess around with a shotgun build so i’ve been playing with a stealth weapon specialist build with kraks. Obviously it doesn’t compete with martyrdom but inexorable judgement it can match. Its not the strongest build at all but I’m liking it with my chain axe well enough. Obviously power sword does ludicrous powersword things.
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### Author:  [@dragomusic](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/dragomusic)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2023, 2:05am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/17 "2023-12-02T02:05:35Z")
You can do very strong stuff with right vet if you remember you’re not a melee character, you’re a hybrid character.
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### Author:  [@Nish](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Nish)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2023, 2:13am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/18 "2023-12-02T02:13:26Z")
> [@Reginald](#):
>
> Obviously it doesn’t compete with martyrdom but inexorable judgement it can match.
Still not my experience. My FtoF + Blazing Piety/IJ Zealot builds go way harder in game. It might be because the extra mobility and tons of survivability allow more aggressive play.
> [@Reginald](#):
>
> Obviously power sword does ludicrous powersword things.
Obviously. PS goes hard, plasma too.
> [@dragomusic](#):
>
> You can do very strong stuff with right vet if you remember you’re not a melee character, you’re a hybrid character.
I’m not really getting how I can get more “hybrid stuff” from it than I can with a Zealot apart from doing something like Exa stance. I mean you can run plasma and that’s my favorite weapon, but I don’t see much else.
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### Author:  [@G0IForce1](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/G0IForce1)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2023, 3:00am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/19 "2023-12-02T03:00:51Z")
> scriers finesse
> Affects any and all attacks that are capable of headshots. Swords, axes, knives, and guns. This particular active ability works exceptionally well with gunpsykers, as much as the playstyle gets flak for.
> ogryn
> Doesnt actually have many weapon specific nodes (if at all? Gunlugger affects all guns but not launchers to the same extent) but there is an entirely keystone dedicated to only fully charging heavies.
The point about knives and axes may be valid but without knowing exactly how staggers work it warrants some testing, but what im trying to say is it might not be completely pointless.
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### Author:  [@MarxistDictator](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/MarxistDictator)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2023, 3:13am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/why-should-veteran-have-lasgun-specific-talents/88401/20 "2023-12-02T03:13:44Z")
Veteran really needs stuff for guns in the general scope the others got. For whatever reason being able to sponge ranged damage was taken away, but Psyker can just be immune to it for the entire time their Scrier Gaze is up (since they have no gun build but crit builds and a node that’s literally Ghost but for critical hits instead). There’s nothing like Annointed in Blood for the raw damage weapons, nothing like Dance of Death to make weapons more controllable outside Executioner Stance. Just lots of things affecting headshot damage. But plasma is definitely worth playing Veteran for. And I like tactical axes best with him, desperado is tailor made for these things.
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