Why nobody adresses the shade problems?

If we make sum of all the balance changhes so far we can reasonably say that regardless of the debate that Mercenary and his kit was too strong or not he was considerably nerfed meanwhile Shade’s got buffed. I never saw Mercenary as a top pick as much as Shade.
If you argue about why nerfing Mercenary people reply “too good at evrything” but i want to ask in what Shade not too good at evrything even more?
Her top pick weapon Sword and Dagger is as good as Ex Sword used to be, arguably even better providing excelent crowd control, excellent mobilty and exellent armor damage conbined with very good attack chains and yet basically the BBB did not touch it.
Shade it’s the perfect example of too good at anything, killing elites? Get Sword and Dagger and use ultimate if it get too dangerous. Horde control? Again spam Light attacks dealing insane DPS, push that cost only half a shield 6 dodges at 25 dodge modifier if you in too much trouble or just use HB you can get ammo back easly anyway. Killing specials? Sure jut take this sniper bow or just keep using HB if you get low on ammo just backstab a bunch of rats and get back all your ammo. Monsters and bosses? I don’t think i have to say somethig about how easy it is to delete it.
I have never cared much about it but i want to know how the “champions of game balance” that i see fight in the forums about all that is “OP” somehow keep silent about Shade.

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Yeah hagbane’s very strong, but it’s strong on all 3 Kerillian careers. Bloodfletcher just got nerfed significantly so Shade’s ammo regen will be much lower. Sword and Dagger got nerfed too. Light 1 and 2 no longer have bonus crit, and they’re the attacks you spam against hordes.
Mercenary was considered really good because of how much temp health he generates for the team, making himself near unkillable. Shade is like the opposite of that, as she can be downed very easily if she isn’t careful.
Let’s not forget that the beta isn’t over yet, so we’ll likely see more changes to Shade’s kit. Also the devs said that they’d be doing some major reworks of some careers in a future beta.

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That can’t be considered a nerf, it doesn’t affect how good you deal with hordes with the weapon.

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A few things shade isn’t good at…
Supporting her team.
Cleaving through hordes
Eating an overhead and living to tell the tale
Crowd control (weapon dependant I guess…)

Also, this is yet another case of things taken in a bubble.

Shade has her strengths, but also some really jarring weaknesses.

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Have you ever touched cataclysm?

First two combo hits are mostly the only ones you use against hordes, so she has indeed lost 10% crit chance against hordes.

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Shade’s top pick weapon is undoubtedly the dual daggers, and even then sword/dagger is nowhere near where xsword was. The crowd control was less considering that the old xsword didn’t even need to push or block to clear horde on cata especially with Merc. If you don’t outright kill something with headshots, the stagger from the xsword would at least stagger it. Elf weapons generally are more mobile so that’s correct, and this isn’t a fair comparison considering it’s two dual light weapons versus a really heavy sword. The “excellent armor damage” much more favors the xsword considering that the xsword is headshot dependent, and the heavy attacks have an innate 20% high crit rate. It’s really easy one shotting a CW on cata with grailknight. The attack chains for sword/daggers are simple, but the poke in the light chance isn’t actually that useful for that horde clear combo. Compared to literally only horizontal swings from the xsword, and a push attack that is a horizontal swing that goes from up to down easily hitting headshots.

Also, the BBB did nerf the sword and dagger by removing the innate 10% increased crit rate on heavy 1, and light 1 and 2.

Bias. Top tier players will run Merc to make a run much easier if they want to, and people run elf a lot because she’s popular, and shade is edgy.

Another thing is that merc’s ult is strong. It’s a shot that staggers and effectively stuns even monsters that gives thp and (usually) damage resist? That’s ridiculous.

Blood Fletcher has been nerfed, and in my experience, farming ammo with the old blood Fletcher was risky considering that pushing staggers and draws aggro to you, so it’s spamming lights in the hopes that no horde actually hits you. The easier way to regain ammo was off of higher health enemies, but that’s another discussion.

There also exists other boss killers such as huntsman, bounty hunter, grailknight, battle wizard. Even then, in my honest opinion, without a potion shade is only “just good” at boss damage while other classes such as battle wizard is much more powerful and can kill a boss/monster easier.

No idea which weapon you’re talking about, but I’ll assume sword/dagger. Shade is much squishier, and she is not a good frontliner especially on higher difficulties. Light attack spamming gives low stagger so it has no crowd control. Pushes are cheaper, but it’s not really that game breaking as you make it out to be, and dodge range isn’t that important.

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I can tell you… the game’s winrate jumps up as soon as a merc enters the fray…
Deleting an elite? Yeah why not?
THP pumping and CC? Yes please feed me Sugar Daddy Kruber.

TBH, if I want to win, I’m not playing shade, but WS. But wtvr.

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Removing crit chances is definitely a nerf. It’s lowers swift slaying uptime, and crits provide higher power which increases stagger. Lights 1 and 2 are definitely the better animations in the light chain.

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You forgot:
Shade can’t hold her ground. If she’s pinned, she’s as good as dead.
Does apply to something like Merc, far from.

Different class with different pros and cons.

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She support her team by removing all the threats before they can reach the team.

You don’t need much cleave when you can kite the horde.

No one should eat an overhead regardless and her high mobility makes it harder the risk that she could be forced to do it

Sword and Dagger may not be the best at Crowd control weapon but for sure a good CC weapon overall.

I still don’t see this weaknesses you speak about it.

You haven’t played a single difficult game with shade in your life by the way you talk, specially comparing her to merc, which is lightyears more OP than shade, can dish out similar dps, has more utility and is not even close to being as squishy as shade is.

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So can any ranged class and do it more safely with better ammo regeneration.

No. Play handmaiden with something garbage like 1h axe, and tell me how that goes.

Play on cata and try to frontline by yourself and tell me how it goes.

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1/ No. Anyone can do so.
2/ you can’t kite a horde down a corridor, nor is leaving your teammates the best strategy. Being their shadow is the most supportive thing you can do for group cohesion.
3/IB has a shitload of effective HP, Merc has insane damage reduc, any class with 150+ EHP can survive one. Also the issue of space. Dodge sideways, if you can. If you dodge back, you lose space and open up to running attacks.
4/No. False. Stand your ground on cata and survive. I dare you.
5/You haven’t played her enough then :slight_smile:

I’ll give you that the latest tweak on the ult made her really fun to play. But not op. Even then I get topped by all other classes (except bardins saddly) regularly.

Even with it she has the same chance as Mercenary with more attack speed so more chance to proc SS while it is still active than Merch has so basically this nerf does virtually nothig. If SS is not active it just means that she has to push a little bit more, for sure weapon can afford it.

Merc has tempo. Your argument is invalid.
I love playing merc because he feels like a f-ing land mower.

Remember that is BBB is about boosting less used careers and weapons. The next one will focus on the rest.

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Merc had an innate 5% increased crit rate, and he literally gets attack speed boosts to slow high damage weapons for hitting things. Honestly, pushing isn’t even required on xsword Merc, and spear Merc is actually untouchable with the amount of stagger put out. Sword and dagger does attack faster, but that’s not even inherent to shade, and the attack speed isn’t that important considering there are so many other stats to consider like cleave damage, cleave stagger, stagger, linesman, armor penetration, heavy linesman, tank, animations, etc. Literally, the best weapon in the game stat wise is the elf one handed sword, but I haven’t seen a single person actually complain about that.

When it comes to game design I love cooking analogies:
Elf 1h sword might have the best ingredients.
But they weren’t used properly :stuck_out_tongue:

Is this supposed to be some kind of bait thread?

On the off chance that you are serious with your topic, I suggest you use the search function next time before you open another topic as there have been several posts about your perceived issues. Kindly drop your input there.

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In the past 2 days I’ve personally replied to 5 different kerillian related posts and at least 2 of those were mainly shade concerned (1 about shadow step and 1 about how broken cloack of mist was) so i don’t know where this initial premise stems from really.

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