Why I feel BBB is mostly a nerf?

  1. Multiplicative damage resistance is a nerf. If you have 30% damage resistance which is quite common, barkskin gives only 32% instead of 40%. Damage vs Race necklace traits gives a pathetic 7% DR in this case. Walk it off gives 17.5% instead of 40%.

  2. Headshots don’t stagger is a nerf. It means you will get more hits. It’s far harder to kill packmaster in melee, e.g. with 2h hammers.

  3. Pseudo-random crit chance is helpful, that’s sure. It counts sometimes. Before BBB I remember watching a chocoB video and counting his hits with exec swords and there were more times when swift slaying activated only after 20 hits.

  4. If old weapons scale ranged from 1-5, in BBB it ranges from 2-4.5. Trash weapons became more useful, that’s okay, but there are only a few which became actually competitive. Glaive. Fire pistols. Swift bow maybe? And the top weapons got nerf, too.

So nerf wins by 3:1


the nerf to dmg reduction is really stupid. some careers were able to get really high dmg reduction so then dmg reduction got nerfed for all characters, even though who dont really have that high dmg reduction. what fatshark could do is simply to cap max dmg reduction to 70 or 75% so that careers that are able to get 20 or 30% dmg reduction dont get punished by picking barkskin when their lower dmg reduction overwrites barkskin or that barkskin only gives them 10% more dmg reduction.

the nerf to dual daggers and s&d was also stupid. most of the weapons were trash in live so lets buff all of them in the beta and nerf the ones who were actually good and have synergy with some of the talents (assassin, shades talents that rely on crit).


It is an issue with human psychology. People concentrate with all their might on the things they perceive as negative.

Look at the weapon balance. A good 70 % of the arsenal has gained a buff with some minor nearly unnoticeable nerfs for overly strong weapons. No matter how you turn it, this is objectively a buff. Yet, people are nitpicking on the minor stuff.
It is like a mediciner coming to you saying “We improved the function of all your body organs by 50 %. Oh we also removed the blind gut because it didn’t have any function.” And people scream: “WTF?! I liked the Blind gut, what is with the ridiculous nerf!”

Also, no word on the new powerful talents? Really, BBB is for the most part just buff, buff, buff. Like with most changes since Combat 2.0. This is just humans being humans.


so you think its a good thing that the only good weapons in live version is getting a nerf because all the other weapons were bad? in beta the bad weapons were buffed while the good weapons were nerfed, why is this a good thing? is it to change the meta or were the only good weapons really op?

in the live version, can you mention some weapons for shade and waystalker that have good synergy with their talents and can perform well agains hordes and elites?

your comparison is stupid. nerfing the attack speed on an already slow weapon with 8.5% and removing half of a weapons crit chance arent unnoticable nerfs.

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Damage reduction was already split into 3 groups.

Most damage reduction sources were already multiplicative with Barkskin pre-BBB

15 out of 22 talent/passive/ult damage reduction sources were already multiplicative.

Barkskin was additive with:
Walk it off
Job Well Done
Master Huntsman
That’s Bloody Teamwork!
Grimnir’s Focus
Armour of Faith
Numb to Pain

Some of these talents weren’t even top picks before e.g Armour of Faith, Master Huntsman, Numb to Pain and to some degree That’s Bloody Teamwork.

e.g Battle Wizards soot shield + Barkskin is unaffected.

The only other notable damage reduction interaction that was impacted was IronBreaker’s 30% Dawrf-Forged + Impenetrable 50% is no longer additive.

I believe the 20% damage reduction properties was already multiplicative but I could be wrong about that.


No, I think these weapons have received a nerf because they were not balanced in the regard to the challenge the game wants to provide at each difficulty. That other weapons were less effective has nothing to do with it. Balance towards difficulty is the most important part of balance anyway. Nerfing in a PvE game is far more important than PvP.

Ignoring the rest because no matter what weapon I will list you will insist that they are bad on live. On a more fundamental level. Why should a weapon be good both against horde and elites? Balance should strive for good being against one of them and weak against the other OR being average against both. But not good against both.
It is also a matter of difficulty. If you feel the weapons are weak just go down a difficulty level and everything feels powerful as you want to.

No, it isnt. It is exactly like a part of the community behaves. Also Executioner is still super strong on Mercenary, Foot Knight and Grail Knight. It may suffer a bit on Huntsman. Let BBB go live wait two months and Executioner Sword will STILL be one of the top picks.


I heard a lot of people complaining about this a lot during playing with others. Everyone I’ve met in-game wanted a roll back.

Not only is it a nerf, it feels ridiculous, I’m hitting a flimsy rat in the face with a warhammer, and the thing just shrugs it off like I’m slapping it like a child.

I 100% would revert this change.


Are you saying that headshots don’t stagger anymore period? Because that’s not true, weapons that have enough stagger power will still stagger enemies as they would normally, and headshots & crits increase stagger power as well.

What enemy are you hitting in the head with a warhammer that doesn’t get staggered? It only got reverted back to how it was before 2.0.

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I mean I’m pretty sure headshots still increase stagger, it’s just not an auto flinch. Last time I was rocking 2h hammer it was headshot flinching SV like a champ, though admittedly I was running opportunist on it at the time.

Edit: Oh you’re talking about packmasters never mind. I mean they’re meant to be very stagger resistant so I think that’s fair.


Then it’s either bugged or not working properly.

A ridiculous ammount of times I’m seeing hookrats get away with a headshot like they didn’t even get hit.

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Packmasters have a huge amount of stagger resistance and monster type armour. In lore they’re also the ones that keep rat ogres under control, and oppress skavenslaves.

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And what part of that justifies shrugging off a warhammer to the face without even armor?

We keep very dangerous animals under control in real life, that doesn’t mean we can stand a hit of those animals.

That’s my point about it feeling ridiculous.

Then you can advocate to lower the stagger resist of packmasters so what you ask may be doable. Having any type of attack stagger any type of enemy with headshots or crits by default is not something I personally want, and made the game feel worse for me. I don’t see anything wrong with packmasters myself anyways, you always try to dodge them anyways, or stagger with abilities.


Whenever I get hit in the face I flinch.


Are you a skaven?

I think the nerfs were a bad idea as well.

They are only going to cause problems later on that will bring us back to another BBB having to fix crap that wasn’t a problem before.

Secondly… when you are trying to achieve a baseline you move all the lower levers to the same position as the upper levers… THEN you adjust them ALL as a whole to get them where you want…

If you keep moving the top levers down and the lower levers up you end up with the same problem we keep seeing over and over and over in this game which is… what is nerfed becomes pointless to use… and what is buffed ends up becoming the next meta so you don’t ever fix anything (common problem with Fat Shark).

Stop moving all the levers at once… and just move them all to the same position.

THEN you can move everything as a whole.

The idea of this beta was to improve the lesser used weapons to the same position of the more used ones… soooo… logic dictates you move the lower ones to the same position as the most used… then after doing so… if its too much… then you move both togather.

You don’t move both at once, because you’ll never get it right then.


Are you asking my race? Tryin’ to Power Vs me? I’ll never tell

If headshots do more damage, they should do more stagger.

So headshots should do the same amount of damage as body shots

Moreover with a bit of maths one could see that it doesn t mean much for anybody but the rightfully targeted builds …

because if a weapon is too bad against armour (dual swords) then no one want to use it.
if a weapon is too bad against hordes (1h axes, crowbill) then no one wants to use it.

we have seen this since 2.0. if a weapon is too bad against hordes or armour then people dont want to use it.

by having more weapons like mace, glaive, exe sword where it has at least decent horde clear and a good single target charged attack then it will be used by more people. (attack speed, stagger and cleave also plays a role)

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