Why i am against choosable missions and conditions, but only difficulties

(Payday 2: What is CRIMENET? - YouTube)
I played day 1 payday2, is this not similar mission menu usage? RNG generated missions.
I’m not familiar with today’s PD2.

It works because tasks that players are given go for specific mission that is always avaible so people will find parties easier, plus active enemy scaling based on player count , DRG way of doing it is way superior and not even close to mess that is darktide mission selection.

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counterpoint: Why would you restrict the missions and difficulties players can select? It makes no sense.

I think it’s a bad idea to restrict mission choice, because it’s also breaking quick play. If they do keep this, which I hope they don’t, they need to make it at least every mission type is available at all times, but I’d rather choose the mission and difficulty.

I’d be fine with not being to choose mission as long as every possible goal in the weeklies was accessible at all times. What I don’t find acceptable at the moment is needing a certain condition to progress (looking at you “finish X missions with secondary objectives at Y” without Y being accessible with or without secondary objectives).

DRG does this well. It can work. I don’t quite know what they thought here though.

have you read? obviously not, because even in the title i said difficulty should be choosable.
What is the counterpoint/ your argument exactly?

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i edited the op to adress the availability of mission types

what i hated the most about the random map selection is that, if im playing a certain difficulty, and one mission is not to my liking, im left with one alternative that i get to play,

but the map reset is slower than a mission itself takes, so im left with 3 choices:

  • play the second map that i initially did not want to play.

  • replay the map i just played.

  • wait.

for me personally it happened rather often, that i had this dilemma and it took away from my willingness to continue play greatly.

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i really understand it, but the peoblem i see ist that a lot or people will min-max choosing missions and the pop is low already.
In the end people especially on higher difficulties will run 1-3 preferred maps only and others wont be played much. Same for lower difficulties that get used to grind stuff and speedrunned.
Therefore i think the compromise is to have all sort of missiontypes available, while second objective weekly needs to get fixed to a missiontype and not a specific map and keep Maps still random, but choose your difficulty for them as you wish.
You would be able to play all missiontypes on the difficulty you want all the time, but not be able to choose specific maps because they can be speedrunned or are easier in general.
Also to have it more comprehensible from a story/ lore point of view where NPC’s say where poop hits the fan and not the Operatives.
I still hope and wish for more immersive elements like the Mourningstar calls announcing missions etc and get more “story” behind all of it.

Again, it’s already a solved problem.

Let people play what they want. You can play what you want. There will be people who don’t want to choose and quickplay. Also add a bit more incentive for quickplay. If you chose to play something, people will quickplay in and fill.

Let the random missions on the board instead be random and rotating secondary objectives and conditions on the board based on zones/tilesets. (Eg, Lights Out in the Torrent and scriptures in the Hourglass).

I do not condone removing player agency for all players to spite a small population of players who play in a slightly different way to you. You talk about benefiting a smaller population, but restricting them would still drive people away.

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Why should players not be able to choose missions and difficulties? (Random conditions are fine, given how absolutely trivial and low-effort they are.)

Its explained in the opening post and several replies of me and others who agree.
more comprehensible and immersive from a story pov.
with low pop some maps won’t be played much, but there are allways people who also like these maps and would more often not find players t play them but rely on bots.
It’s to have more variety and not allways get what you want or work off and therfore also about longevity if you have to be more patient take what is there and not tweak everything like you want.
Some people like it others hate it.
You can disagree, all fine.

Thermian arguments are largely irrelevant when discussing mechanics and systems because the counterpoint is “Okay, but why does that matter? Since stories are, by definition, illusory an author can make anything fit.”

Vermintide 2 has low-ish pops but you can almost always find a full group playing on any arbitrary map and that game (also by Fatshark, if you weren’t aware) lets players just choose what mission you want to do.

Let me get this straight: reducing the number of options available increases variety? Surely what increases variety is having more variations availiable? Don’t get me wrong - there are always going to be people who pick the same food at a buffet, but why is that an issue, for you?

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where do you get that it is an issue for me, i just wrote “why i am against choosable missions and conditions, but only difficukties.”
Not sure why you think I have a problem with that there are people who want it differently ?

i think if you search the forum you will find lots of posts or threads even that want the opposite and because i dont, i made y thread and oh wonder some people agree.

My main point actually is immersion and being more comprehensible from a story pov and i wholeheartidly disagree with “an author can make anything fit.”
Thats the “it’s magic” argument leading to bad stories.

edit: i had to google Thermian Argument.
Oh my, a Twitter Dude trying to look smart, lol.
Here, maybe interesting for you

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whoever flagged that post, thanks for making clear what kind of people are around.

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There’s some META decision making here I think.

There’s speedrunners that - in the early days of VT2 - absolutely spammed through missions as Handmaiden prior to Boss-Flames being a thing and could do something like Against the Grain map in less then four minutes IIRC, and doing this meant that getting a Peasants Vault far more often gave a higher chance of red weapons than playing Legend properly.

This was solved with Boss Flames eventually.

I can see how randomising maps might slow down the run-spamming for farming. It’ll stop some maps being “dead” and make it hard to complete penances if theres no one playing a specific map.

Randomising the difficulty, or actively forcing players to play maps they don’t fancy is a bit counterproductive at best, and as you can’t host your own choice for others to join, it severely limits whats on offer and a limited offer isn’t good for the vast majority of customers - even if some do like it that way.

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aha, just to say it was also a thing in VT1 and i stopped playing it therefore and because i’m not that much into WH Fantasy than into 40k, but the speedrunners and only finding people for like 2 maps when there were like 7 or so made me quit the game early. I didnt even bother to buy VT2.
Min Maxers and speedrunners spoil me games!
If this game ends up with 2000 players and the majority is only min-maxing, speedrunning and checking shop 24/7 and maybe even get their f… Scorboard to flame others and to play for their stats, FS has one customer less and can be happy feeding their 2000 hc players.
But if they dont and make the game casual friendly lots of casuals will fund the development of their game and play it, buy stuff and leave after some hours, butnew customers come all the time.
Look at Sea of Thieves and how they hav done it even with an open PvP sandbox that most casuals wont ever touch.
I dont say that DT can ever bring the unpredictable the Sea of Thieves can bring, but things beeing unpredictable and not under control of players is something a lot of players like. Only hardcore gamers gaming systems dont like it, because then they cannot tweak everything and be efficient.
Lets play games, not game systems and want to be efficient all the time.
I’ve done a lot in this game and can play Damnation all fine and believe it or not i still enjoy Malice or even Uprising just for fun.
I really dont get the need to controll all and everything. There are more players outside than you can imagine, they dont bother Forums or social media, they play games just for fun. that is the market, not 2000-5000 hardcore freaks min maxing and speedrunning.

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They should at least let you choose the difficulty because for the last like 5 days when I’m on and looking for T4/T5 lobbies to play I get a choice of hab dreyko, baross or that spire one that puts you in the super bug zone when entering the tin shanty town. Why is the difficulty slider not an option.

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exactly waht i said, make Diffuculty choosable and let the rest be random.

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