I will just repost my thoughts:
On Kantrael IX it’s 8/41 with 56% ammo stat and only 9/46 on 80% ammo stat. Ammo is kinda a dump stat and that sucks. It shoud be changed.
In terms of damage shotguns feel ok on vet, not decent, on zealot - underpowered. I think MKVI and VII need only a bit more damage, 15-20% maybe, atleast as a starting point (not a fan of giga buffs that are canceled by nerfs atfer). And 50-70% more ammo for all patterns. And maybe +2 to clip size for every MK.
P.S. i want a drum mag shotgun.
The Kantrael has a special ammo with an infinite cleave, and that’s GREAT. But, it has only that. The spread is so important that you cannot kill anything before being at so close range that you can kill it with a melee weapon. As a result, this is useless for the zealot. And for the veteran, too few ammos to even consider it. But if it had more ammos, the close range of the kantrael would make it a bad weapon.
Final word, this weapon has a slow rate of fire. So slow that a lawbringer can kill anything faster than it. It is, as a consequence, a bad choice for a zealot. Considering how close you have to be, it is either a bad choice for a veteran.
For the Agri… well… few ammos in a gun that does poor damages… ok. Nice to have one more option for sedition.
The special slug ammo on the Agripinaa is absolutely amazing. It reaches a silly number of breakpoints right off the bat as Veteran on Damnation, and even more with traits, plus it’s 100% pinpoint accurate. With damage vs. Flak and Maniac, you can 1-shot bodyshot the Sniper, Trapper, Bomber, and both flavors of Shotgunner, and 1-shot headshot the both flavors of Gunner, Rager, Flamer, and the Poxburter, plus a few more I’m probably missing.
You can also modestly reliably 1-shot headshot all the riflemen using your regular shot with extra damage vs. Flak Armor from a decent range, so that’s nice.
Good = a weapon with more strong points than weakness. A weapon that you would certainly often use
Well balanced = a weapon that can be used in the game and that can compete with the average weapons of the game
First impression is overall good. The Kantrael seems to have gotten the better deal going purely by the numbers, and the burning special slug seems really strong with its infinite cleave. I’m not sure how big of a deal this actually is in practice, I’ve only seen the true potential come into play a couple times in long hallways and the like. Other than that, it’s not as though heretics will voluntarily arrange themselves in a conga line. I expect that the burn damage penetrating a bulwark’s shield will be fixed.
As for the Agripinaa, I’ll know more once RNG grants me a decent one (sigh!), but it seems to rely a bit much on its special slug to remain useful. I do love the fact that it can open up a bulwark though. It might need a little love from Fatshark, but this could be the gun that replaces the bolter for my zealot. It’s about time that the bolter got some competition for that utility.
The ammo count is a bit of a disappointment, but that’s a problem with shotguns in general.
I will retest the Agri with veteran, full bore and no respite and perk for weak spot damages.
But for that, I need that the normal shop propose me one that is a green / grey and with correct modifiers and that I get lucky with Omissiah…
The Agripinaa shotgun might be the best weapon I’ve ever run for zealot. I love it on my zealot and swear by it. First of all, I never use the primary fire, I only use the slug. You can animation cancel pretty early if you switch weapons while loading the slug. I use it to free-stagger any enemy I’m facing. Bulwark? Not an issue. Crusher? The slug knocks them down in one hit. Sniper giving you trouble? One shot kill. Gunner? knocks them over with plenty of time to close distance and kill them.
I don’t use it as a killing weapon, I use it as a stagger weapon that then allows me to get in close with my brutal momentum axe.
In my opinion, it’s better than the bolt gun. 1) it’s more accurate than the boltgun. 2) It doesn’t take years to pull out the shotgun. You can prepare a slug round, so you prepare the round, switch to your melee weapon, and kill everything with your melee weapon, then when a crusher comes around, hit it in the chest with your slug to knock it down and finish it off before it stands up. when you get some breathing room, spend a half second to prep another slug and switch back. Been running it on damnation and I love it. You can’t kill things as quickly with the shotgun, but it’s not meant to deal insane amounts of damage, it’s just meant to stagger your enemy long enough to get in close with them and finish them off without the danger. It’s a fast response to snipers and gunners, and you can knock enemies down to give yourself breathing room.
Agrip’s slug round might be the only range weapon in the game that can one shot Damnation Crusher without Anti-Ogryn feat, require some set up though.
but other than that I still prefer Hellbore for now, it’s a lot more versatile than shotty and I don’t have to fight my teamate over who get to pick up ammo.
I appreciate the addition of the poll. There’s been a fair bit of conversation about the Lawbringer shortly before the new release and the two varients really bring new life into my favorite weapons and the conversation.
Speaking pretty much exclusively from the perspective of a zealot. I have run the lawbinger for probably 70~ hours of gameplay. Either with a Thunder Hammer or a Chain Axe. I have about 10 damnation and damnation hi int games in with both the Kantrael and the Agripinaa. By way of comparison to other similar ranged options: I have some time with the post buff autopistol as well, and i tried and hated the revolver. Oh and the laspistol is fun but doesn’t solve any problems i have with my prefered melee choices. All that is to say I think I have a decent grasp on the weapons. Jury is still out for me on best perks.
Summary: for zealot and the needs i have out of a shotgun my ordering is
Lawbringer > Agripinaa > > Kantrael
Lawbringer: good hipfire that can commonly oneshot basic enemies within short/melee range. Can be mag-dumped into a horde to thin it out. ADS is effective out to decent ranges as long as you click heads, and always good against snipers at insane ranges. Easy to take advantage of full bore and no respite due to excellent stagger. Remarkably effective against reapers. Special shell duckbill is tremendously undervalued by most players. It has great damage with low damage fall off, excellent penetration and stagger. It can be used serially to annihilate a whole horde with relative ease or as a niche utility to stunlock tightly packed groups of gunners and reapers. Because of its versatility and good effect on targets i think this might still be the best shotgun. Needs more ammo.
Kantrael: hipfire is only useful at nearly melee range or into hordes, but certainly reliabily kills things if you’re in that range, its a bit unimpressive for either use case. The ADS has good damage but spread is significant such that even at short ranges many pellets miss. Can be useful in rare cases for killing stacked groups of shooters. Good against reapers but doesn’t feel that much greater compared to the lawbringer. Honestly might try a different blessing instead of full bore because i doubt i’m getting much value. This shotgun derives almost ALL its value from the special shell which is an incredible do-all blaster that kills gunners, reapers, bulwarks, hordes, shooter groups, snipers and anything. I’ve taken to calling the Kantrael “the roman candle” because there’s no sense wasting your pitiful ammo supply on normal shots. Needs way more ammo.
Agripinaa: this truely surprised me. I tested it on the range and was unimpressed. It has no horde clear and was kinda headshot dependent for shooter kills. The slug feels great but I didn’t see the value until i took it into a mission. At medium to short range you can mag dump at head height from the hip to thin a horde. There’s no pellets penetration just like all shotties but it does adequate damage with headshot bonuses and will spread enough to hit more than one target. I don’t recommend this but sometimes you need a quick clean up on a dense mob. You can also hipfire trappers and the like in a pinch. The real value is headclicking shooters in an ammo efficient manner at decent ranges. The agripinaa also has decent stagger so blasting specials works the same as the lawbringer. The slug shines as an elite and special sniper, especially taking out gunners in an ammo efficient way, not bad for reapers at longer ranges. The slug also gives you long range damage and ammo efficiency, if not time efficiency, for those places where hitting shooters takes too many shots with buckshot. I was legit surprised by how much i liked it in game. It totally has no horde clear though so maybe better paired with a melee weapon that does than my hammer. Or just bring a Bully Butcher ogryn pal. I found myself not hurting for ammo as badly since it had a larger reserve and more ammo efficiency in general.
agree. I tested it out in the psyk and came to the same conclusion, though the special ammo load animation ought to be affected by reload buffs, to be in par with effectiveness vs something like a bolter or helbore for its oneshot potential.
I actually think the Kantrael is great on the veteran. My new favorite weapon for that class. Still needs a lot more ammo for it to work on the zealot, but that goes for all the shotguns.
Nah I’m totally serious. Well, I dunno if I would use the word excellent anymore, with the Kantrael as a competitor for best special shell. but I think its good. I’ll show you what I mean:
Here’s the spread. I can’t quite tell if that’s 12 pellets or 10 but I think its 12.
My mods don’t work and the creature spawner seemed to make spawned mobs invulnerable to ranged fire before the latest patch so I cannot really confirm it beyond my testimony of using it in missions effectively. But here’s some range tests I did shooting into poxwalkers and groaners.
Just groaners: Each groaner hit is killed. All 5 are dead. If my pellet count is correct that’s twelve dead groaners and more behind wounded when firing into dense hordes.
This is just a demo of the headshot damage against walkers. I don’t see +Infested as worth taking but dumping 3-4 of these at head height will definitely wipe out and wound a lot of walkers.
Most of the competitors to this are bolters, braced autoguns and shredder autopistols. Which can all do a great and probably faster job at cleaning up a horde but they’re going to be less ammo efficient with certainly fewer enemies killed per shot. The flamer is in its own class of horde clear excellence so I’m excluding it on purpose.
You do realise you have to spend like 3 seconds to load a shell that can barely kill 4-5 poxwalker in a cone while they’re spreading out, running toward you and trying to smack you right?
You could just enable enemy AI in meat grinder and see how that fare compare to Braced Autoguns and Shredder Autopistol.
Uhhhhh autopistol with the right blessings cleaves like 3 poxwalkers with enough damage to 2 shot them, and has like 10x the ammo pool. It most definitely is but less efficient than shotgun lol.
