Merc shout is very spamable, since you just need to take some hits for the Ult to be back in no time. Thanks to how easy it is to regain THP in VT2, taking some spanking is not a big deal, which is why this mechanic got removed in the tournament rebalance mod.
But this point is nonsensical anyway, since comparing VT2 balancing to DT is about as realistic as comparing Applepie to Gulasch.
Where is the difference between Infiltrate, Chorus, Shroudfield, VoC, and especially Bubble?
You press the button preemptively, or reactively and it still does its job. Just click the button and watch the magic happen.
Ok, in theory, there is potential to waste, fair enough. Realistically that won’t be an issue. There’s even SoT so even if another teammate or you don’t need the THP, she can absorb it instead.
I probably am, true.
The point was more that VoC brings the skill requirement down to win on certain difficulties but I find it hard to argue that it’s so strong that it wins the missions for you. The strength of every ability is conceptual to the difficulty the game presents. VoC is crazy in all difficulties currently but theoretically, havoc could be “so insane” that VoC could be fine there. It’s not praticularly realistic, grant you, but you get the concept. It’s not smart design, hence why havoc will very likely not be “making-VoC-just-fine-kinda crazy”. I just think that reasonable CDR changes would be enough to bring VoC down to an acceptable level of power.
I’m not against an ability to make it easier for mid players to do a bit better. Obviously if a good player now uses that ability, it’s overtuned but would you rather not have an ability to help bridge the gap?
I’d find it hard to argue that there shouldn’t be such abilities.
Sorry, that was not the intention at all, it was just funny to me that someone else also got that penance done when they weren’t actively going after it ^^
If we were going for a comparison, I’d say mine is not that impressive. I had good teammates that esseantially cleared the map for me and I was already proficient in that genre of game. You had to do it with randies which I wouldn’t want to do, knowing my luck with randoms.
Obviously there is a point to VoC making that penance a lot easier to get but was it the sole reason why you got it? I’d argue you had to have a decent bit of skill to pull it off regardless if you had VoC.
We’re diving way too far into hypothetical land if we’re now also expecting there to always be a SotT.
…No? The game already has plenty of ways for “okay” players to contribute pretty easily without having an ability that literally just lets them smack one key to massively increase their team’s survivability while requiring zero additional thought for them. Chorus is certainly not flawless balance wise either but at least it has some downsides associated with it. (IE: Taking you out of the fight while channeling) The game has huge issues with letting people unga bunga already, we don’t need to encourage people to have even less reasons to improve.
Fair enough, the joys of text and lack of tone
I’d say it definitely helped a lot, especially if you’re already okay at the game. It lets you get away with way lazier gameplay, having the ability to double soak even melee hits gives a huge amount of flexibility and also massively reduces chip damage taken for many people. (Especially with the game’s dogwater servers) Is it the sole reason? Nah. Is it definitely a contributor, even more so with multiple shout vets/chorus zealots? Very much so. Even having two sources of gold toughness nerfs the difficulty a ton, slap in chorus plus VoC and the difficulty plummets off a cliff overall.
The only reason I don’t hate gold toughness in general is basically because of my deep loathing of snipers and how poorly I think they’re designed combined with the aforementioned potato servers.
I don’t think any class is eating uniquely good atm except Zealot. It is just way too easy to have incredible survival mobility range proficiency and melee regardless of how you spec. The other classes have more pronounced weaknesses or in the case of the other 2 humans have to get massacred by hitstuns for making mistakes.
this is varying in effect on character though, and one of the more interesting elements of the game. like WP seems to be a huge hit trader but he has the worst regen for getting hit. but they 100% made it crazy forgiving for merc because he has the highest return on hit and getting hit. he is literally just mash M1 kruber the whole way through.
I more think every class is eating good compared to the current difficulty of the game. The power creep the players have had is extremely pronounced. I’m talking about the overall ease of play compared to impact. As I’ve said multiple times: VoC has effectively no downside while having a disproportionately massive impact on the match, combined with being brain dead easy to use.
Gonna be honest, I can’t think of the last time hitstun really screwed me over to the point where I’d call it getting massacred by it
I’m not arguing for or against it, I’m just saying that it’s not a unique aspect of Merc in general. Not trying to dive into VT2 balance. I like that ability to trade health for cooldown as well as it’s a measured option that comes with risks. I use it on pretty much every class.
whether or not you want to play risky and high octane is your own business, like if you don’t fine but lets not pretend Zealot doesn’t have a totally unique and more powerful toolkit the entire way around. and hitstuns in this game specifically compound small mistakes into death when you are in the frontline which zealot completely ignores. if you are never in danger your gameplay is boring. while being better at range than most veteran sets that aren’t speccing like half their nodes into it, from just using annointed/duelist. its totally the best class in the game, but not if you don’t play out of your comfort zone to maximize those strengths. they literally can’t die. psyker has the best damage output in darktide but zealot ignores half the game mechanics and outruns the rest.
? The class where you always should be in front, always in contact, and you think there is no danger ?
Ogryn has lot of toughness regen
Psyker has so much offensive powers that they can create an interdiction zone
Veteran kill everything at distance…
Every class has its own tools to survive. When you play all classes, you can see it.
Is there things too powerful? sure. Is there talents too weak? sure also
These things can be balanced.
But saying this class or this class is easier or better is total non sense.
I made maelstrom missions with zealot, ogryn and veteran. I am not enough trained to do it with my psyker. But from what I see, all classes can do it easily.
You just need a good team (so not a team with rusher(s) or decerebrated guys or unready) and to adapt to your class.
I think I pointed that out too, everyone has different abilities but right now the Zealot stack is insane and its pretty funny to see people deny it considering all the major nerfs have been compounded on them since patch 13, while others get new stuff and buffs. They’re all good classes but Zealot has the best inherent abilities which stack the best with strong fundamentals in the game. To where good players can main missions with melee and throwing knives and still leave players in the dust on damage and pick targets killed.
This is way outside of what I was talking about and frankly I’m really baffled you’re starting this weird argument over how strong zealot as a whole is versus a discussion about one ability.
Particularly when some of the stuff you mention are nodes I don’t run even on my zealot. (EG: Thy Wrath Be Swift)
I’m just pointing out bias, regardless of player feelings veteran hasn’t been getting any sort of tuning down. its the crazy ones. the curve of player ability hinders vets and benefits zeal
its just a lot of trash slinging with a very much larger elephant in the room is all. not that gold toughness isn’t a bad concept after chip damage was removed, but zealot is max braindead and can easily ignore the entire concept of teamplay in every mission…far worse offense at the game atm.
You can have issues with some things while still discussing other problematic things dude. They’re not mutually exclusive.
Do I think duelist zealots are an issue? Yes.
Do I also think VoC is brain dead easy? Also yes.
You’re picking a fight with nothing. Including claiming bias of me, which is… weird. I’m not going to apologize for not bringing up zealot in every single balance discussion. I actively refuse to touch dueling swords on veteran/zealot despite enjoying them on psyker just because of how busted they are. (On the flipside it made me realize how much I like shank shovel my beloved)
After a discussion about that, and after realizing hand cannon on revolver has been nerfed, i am in favor if they nerf it at same time of the PG light shots (they should not cleave so much).
But not its mobility
Returning on topic, voc itself is fine. Like it has been pointed, the problem is the gold toughness.
My suggestion would be to invert the malus and give the res malus to the node that gives gold toughness (so longer cooldown and reduced range)
I don’t remember Warp Siphon ever not having Specialist’s as part of it’s activation, so ‘before the talent tree change’ with Warp Charges perhaps? I didn’t play before that so that’s all I got.
I WILL say though, that I’m pretty sure I remember (could be making this up, but don’t THInk I am) Psykinetic’s Aura used to only trigger off of elites, but then they made it trigger off both since Tactical Awarness triggered off both already. I think that happened…Is unsure if I’m fabricating a memory
Wanna add my two cents. Am running VoC without gold toughness and without the cooldown-on-specialst node these days and it feels good (in line). The area is a bit bonkers but reasonable. I would like to see, as others have mentioned before me, a cooldown increase on the gold toughness node and a reduction to the gold toughness duration. The ress node should get a condition as follows:“if an ally was ressed, double the cooldown” instead the current cooldown.
I agree. Playing a psyker there’s a lot of stuff you have to learn to manage. You must be constantly aware of your surroundings as a psyker as it takes nothing to bring you down. Taking two poxwalker hits from behind if two sneaks up on you, can eat entirely through your toughness and a large portion into your health. Taking an overhead swing from a mauler will down you completely.
Then you have to learn to manage your peril, and if you want to get really good you have to learn to keep it as high as possible but without overloading.
It’s all doable, but it requires a lot from the player. It took me a long time when I first started playing to learn the peril thresholds and keep at constant watch on them. Of course if you can do all this at a high level, you can totally dominate a game, even without meme builds like smite or surge critspam.
