Unchained clearly lack an identity and focus

As discussed in Squirrel Squad and some others topics. There’s still an issue with Unchained as a brawler which is not specifically linked to a balance. And BBB should probably try to adress that issue before going live.

At the moment, Unchained does a ton of weird stuff (which does not seems to fit a role of what “an unchained” should do), like giving THP for exploding (it’s fun, don’t mind me, but this is not really what you think an Unchained will do when you see her), or being less “melee” dps wise than pyro despite having a huge number of talents in melee.
So currently, she does probably have the power to do stuff in cata, but she does lack a clear identity.

There’s currently not really a reason to get her in the team, apart from abusing from a specific thp zone build, which probably will be nerfed. As she doesn’t get that “gimmick” that give her a role than no other can do atm.

If the BBB adressed her “balance wise”, it unfortunately still doesn’t adress her core identity issue.

Seeing that this same problem is adressed with the Huntsman rework. I do think that it could be a good idea to collect some ideas about this specific issue here.

My idea :
Fire aura, at the moment is a clear good gimmick, that really could be added, I think, as a part of the base ult.
It would make her less dependant on her weapon to apply “ignite” status. And can probably push the “explosions” to ignited enemies build which is currently kinda bad.

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Tbh, I wanna see the 2H Mace to be Unchained Exclusive and go like this, with a shitload of fire on top

…and explosions, a lot of explosions and maybe smth like the “Ride the Firewind” or what ever the name of the Pyromancers ability is, where your power increases and decreases over time…
you could do this with small eruptions for Unchained, like a super mini Unchained ultimate ability.

I think to actually “rework” Unchained her role needs to clarified a little better. For me she’s an unstable melee focused class that’s primarily damage focused. Smth like Zealot but instead of the attack speed buffs Unchained should feel more like striking hard and heavy (means high stagger / high cleave / lower attack speed)

I already said something about this HERE a while ago, well like half a year :sweat_smile:
Just gonna quote myself to have it all in one place:

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I like the ult suggestions a lot, especially the no venting on ult but massive increases to melee power or some crazy, timed weapon buff that lays low everything in its path. It’s high risk because you can’t vent overcharge but would be great if it could be used as a boss killer - putting Unchained in the realm of Shade or Bounty hunter but being way more tanky overall except when overcharge is high. Maybe to increase the risk you could make 100% of damage received for the duration on the ult be transferred to overcharge, so if you take too many hits you are well and truly screwed. Maybe the damage increase effect for the ult should scale with overcharge; i.e, be an multiplier of unstable strength stacks - if you ult at low overcharge you get a moderate increase in damage output but are at low risk of death/taking health damage because 100% of damage is transferred to overcharge. In contrast, if you ult at high overcharge you get insane power but the slighest touch can cause you to self immolate.

I really dislike the weapon restriction idea. We need more choices not less. Unchained is already strongly encouraged to take stagger and multi-hit weapons by the level 5 and 15 talents she has available. She should have access to THP on Kill and Smiter talents so she can use the dagger effectively. These restrictions just decrease overall build variety within a class. It would be much more fun to have access to all wapons and THP/stagger talents and build an unchained around any melee and ranged weapon combos I like.

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I’m honestly a little surprised UC never got a Flense equivalent to put burning dots on enemies with melee attacks. I like how Searing Grasp is, Chain Reaction still does too little but will admit if it caused mass explosions in hyper density games would crash harder than the economy.

The problem with Unchained is that they took that class’ potential and funneled it all into Pyromancer. If they want to revisit Unchained’s core identity, Pyromancer will have to be looked at as well.

Hah, i wanna see dual wielding FLAILS
kinda like this but enemies die

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Add smiter to her stagger talents and this gets flipped on its head. That’s the only reason pyro is beating UC in melee rn.

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Does not really solve the issue apart from making Pyro Sienna weaker (which she doesn’t need) and Unchained stronger.
But I do agree this is probably an issue that also lies in the core identity of the pyro as well.

Not sure what you think I meant. I was just saying to replace bulwark on unchained with Smiter. Not suggesting anything about Pyro be changed. Unchained’s melee toolkit is simply undermined by the fact she loses out on 30% extra damage by not having smiter. (It would work multiplicatively with her 60% passive so 1.6*1.2=1.32)

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Yeah I probably misunderstood. But that would only solve the fact that others sienna overshadow her in melee.

Does not really reinforce her identity, or gimmick or I don’t really know which word will be more understandable as I see more people not getting it. (Which is surely me explaining badly so I apologize)

If you show the game to a non player and ask what this character would do, I still see explosions before a melee brawler that debuff by igniting enemies. And there the ‘explosion’ core is not really seen.

Yeah that’s fair. I was just addressing that one issue though. Not a ton of comments on the rest. Mainly because that is such a simple fix and it boggles the mind that it still hasn’t been changed.

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I guess you could count on the stagger topic as everyone kinda agrees.

I’ve always thought of Unchained as a melee tank. I think they should definitely pursue it as an avenue of identity for her. She could be a proverbial paladin for the group. I think if they added a passive that made her generate aggro with overcharge or something of the sort, that would be great. It would really play into the basis of the class. Let Unchained get a few hits, she aggros horde rats, explodes. Just an off the cuff idea.

Issue with the tank identity, in a game like vermintide 2 is if you ‘only’ soak damage, you hardly get a spot in a team.
Now she was buffed a bit to provide a bit more control (stagger options etc) but as it is now she’s more of a brawler than a tank.
Which is also fine but she could use a gimmick that makes me get her rather than a mercenary for example.

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I don’t entirely mean Unchained should only soak damager. I just mean perhaps she could draw aggro the way IB does without relying on the use of her Ult. The Ult would be the icing on the cake. Draw aggro so a bunch of horde stop and focus on Unchained, then Ult to clear them out. Again, just brainstorming.

That’s exactly the kind of brainstorm that I do seek :stuck_out_tongue:

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You know, Unchained is supposed to be Sienna fully embracing the Red Wind, but for some reason it doesn’t reflect on her gameplay at all with the exception of Unstable Power.

What I’m trying to get at is, instead of following the mold of blowing up at the highest overcharge because they lose control, what if that’s when she’s the strongest to set UC apart from the other Sienna classes? I posted a rework idea a few months back, though outdated and I don’t really think most of it are good ideas now, I still stand by the core concept of Sienna fully embracing high overcharge instead of skirting around it. An Unchained who no longer worries about blowing up because she’s in full control.

Something like, when she’s building overcharge, she passively starts growing a burn aura just like the effect of her ult talent. Then refocus a lot of her talents around burning enemies akin to Enfeebling Flames (instead of focus on burn damage, since that’s BW’s thing now). Maybe some power increase or bonus damage reduction per enemy within her burn aura, elites that die within burn aura explode and stagger surrounding enemies, etc. etc.

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I would welcome a fully fledged rework that changes Unchained to that which she is advertised as in every promotional material that Fatshark ever released of her, up to and including the little video footage you can see when you select her in the character screen. But alas, until they decide to do so, I have resigned myself to accepting her current state as a ‘can-sorta-do-everything-kinda’ hybrid that heals people by exploding on them.

Yes, before vermintide 2 was released i looked at all the careers and the moment i saw unchained i thought she is about explosions and fire everywhere. A pure dps with a possible way to sacrifice health in order to get even more power (since this is already a sienna thing with the heat vent)

But instead we got a more i would say tanky sienna and the fire everywhere and explosion is battle mage territory

So i would’t say i’m disapointed because i got more or less the playstyle i was hoping for, but unchaineds career description doens’t fit her playstyle/look in my opinion

Just some Brainstorming from me

Why doesn’t remove the ability to vent from her, since the description says: she lives from one dizzying magical high to the next.
So we can assume that fire is like a drug for her, so why she would vent?

So i think it would be a unique playstyle if you could only vent through passive venting (and maybe talents). And maybe make it so high overcharge shortens your cooldown, because more explosions = more fun.

So she would be clearly melee focused and this was always her thing.
Copy pasted from her description: getting as close to the foe as she can – the better to witness that sublime moment when flesh and bone succumb to the glorious flame she now serves. In battle, Unchained Sienna’s focus now lies in magically enhanced melee combat

So all in all she would be different to play. And since the playstyle would be riskier because you can’t actively vent anymore (through ult or normal venting) she could be made to a real powerhouse in form of a more risk and reward playstyle.

I think it’s important that every sienna career plays different.

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