To-do list before you scream and complain

On kill THP talents are even better now, since the enemy HP was raised and you get THP percentage wise, not flat.
This is the first time I ever used on-kill on pyro with crowbill.
This way you can vent from THP pre-lvl35.

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Pretty much.
I have yet to find a THP talent that would feel weak if paired with a weapon that makes sense with it.
Except the cleave ones obviously which are currently in a bad spot.

Nerf to THP acquisition is something we were asking for during the betas simply because healing supplies felt completely worthless in old Legend and I was skipping 90% of them unless I screwed up badly somehow. Hordes were just a giant free medkit for everyone and all it took was to spam left click to be back to full HP again.

Making enemy hits matter is a much better way of ramping up the difficulty than endlessly boosting the enemy numbers (which only hurts performance and effectively has a cap). If getting THP is too easy then any hit which doesn’t oneshot me means nothing because I can recover from it quickly and easily via THP.

Voidq, do you prefer the game in 2.0? Or does it feel just like it used to?
If you prefer it, then that must mean things are different, otherwise you would be indifferent.
And if things are different now, maybe some people don’t like the changes?

For me, I hate the combat now. It feels like Vermintide 1, where the way you’re “supposed” to play is basically just cluster up in a choke point and use high-cleave, high-stagger weapons for crowd control. The high-mobility gameplay that Vermintide 2 used to allow was the most fun I’ve had in video games in years, but the combat re-tuning seems specifically designed to punish that type of play, to encourage “teamwork”. But if teamwork means cluster with 3 other players the whole map, then why am I even playing with other people? Might as well just use bots if everyone’s going to be doing the same thing all map. It doesn’t feel dynamic at all.

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It feels VERY similar to what it was before WoM. 90% of the time I’m using the same playstyle I did before. From everything I’ve seen since VT2 launch the main reasons I saw people wipe were either lack of melee frontline (stagger) or playing too passively which resulted in the team getting overwhelmed by enemy density. Having at least one more competent player on the team made it always feel like a completely different game compared to carrying 3 bad players and it was also infinitely easier… why? Because competent players would help control the horde properly instead of simply spamming left click, their ranged weapon or blocking too much and playing too passively. If you have just 2 players who stick together and understand melee stagger the enemy horde becomes much less of a threat. This was 100% true before WoM and it’s even more important now due to the stagger dmg bonuses.

Look around, take notice of where your teammates are, push enemies who are getting too sassy and get in as much damage as possible before they recover. This is definitely a more engaging playstyle than breaking my left click and dodging sideways without even looking. (basically what Legend used to be, with any career and any weapon)

The main difference is that we now have more build variety (new talents) and some actual choices instead of one nobrainer build for most careers, that’s a good thing.

If different weapons don’t have different roles then most weapons are never going to be used over a few outliers that can do everything well. It’s a COOP game with different classes and plenty of weapons to choose from, there need to be roles otherwise we might as well reduce every character to a “dude with a sword” because they all do the same thing.

If you want to be super stronk against a horde, you probably have to sacrifice single target damage or armor penetration somewhere and vice versa… that’s only fair.

TL;DR: IMO new combat “sucks” if you’ve acquired bad habits from the previous version of the game. Bad habits that did hurt your team before but the game was easy enough for that to not be an issue, now those bad habits have more of an impact and it’s easier to wipe due to them.

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If I’m understanding correctly, you’re just saying that you already liked to use crowd control weapons before 2.0 and thought more people should play that way. So for you, the combat still feels very similar.

For those of us who never enjoyed using crowd control weapons because we find them utterly boring, the combat feels immensely different, and almost entirely in a negative way. Crowd control focus is effective, yes, but it’s also uninteresting to me. I enjoy the chaotic and dynamic combat with enemies all over the place, where mobility is rewarded. That seems basically gone now.

If the 2.0 combat is almost the same for some people, and utterly terrible for others, how is that overall a good direction for the game? The old version of the game felt like it allowed for more playstyles.

It really seems to me that you think there’s a “right” way to play, and you like that people are now being forced to play the game “right”. The apparent prevalence of that attitude in the people defending the combat changes in 2.0 just makes me disappointed and kinda sad to be part of this community.

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Not really, no, not at all. I never used heavy crowd control weapons much myself.

I’m simply saying that a good player does MORE than just pressing left click. EVERY single melee weapon has both block and push and for a good reason.

If you never used push (or push-stab) during melee combat before then you were simply doing it wrong, no offense.

Make no mistake, the playstyle I propose and 100% believe is the key to clear Legend and especially Cata comfortably is NOT a “boring stagger meta” but rather a very aggressive one. Even if you just push once every 10 seconds while swinging your weapon it will make a big difference and there’s nothing “slow” about it, in fact most weapons will benefit from some kind of either block-animation-cancelling or push-stabbing. If you’re cancelling animations with a block, you’re already just one click away from pushing, it doesn’t break up the pace in any way.

There is absolutely a “right” way to play. It means using all the tools at your disposal and being as useful as possible for the team. Reducing the combat to “I press left click fast” is not interesting in any way, it’s simply just an easy way out.

I never said that the type of gameplay I liked was left click spam. What ever gave you that idea?

Anyway, it’s pretty clear I’m just wasting my breath here. You don’t care how anyone else wants to play as you think there’s a “right” way, and Fatshark seems to have a pretty similar attitude.

I wish I could just have my old game back.

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Yet again generalized complaints and accusations but absolutely nothing of substance.

90% of the time you are perfectly fine with simply dodging around the enemies and cutting them down, with an occasional push. How is this so vastly different from what the game was before 2.0? You are “wasting your breath here” but you haven’t even begun to explain your point, still.

What’s the alternative to dodging, attacking and pushing? If it’s not just left click spam then what? Am I missing something? Do people just spam jump in a circle or…?
Enlighten me.
Or don’t.

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If you try really hard, do you think you could make your tone any more condescending? That would probably make more people want to engage with you in a meaningful discussion.

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Hammer+shield is still terrible, specifically because of it’s poor super-armor/boss damage.

Also conflag burn battlewizard trivializes hordes solo from ranged without resource constraints. In fact the build overall probably got a buff from this patch. Pretty much the only downside is chaos warriors.

I can’t take anything that @Voidq says seriously.

Mainly because of the fact that all that has happened is the meta has shifted 180. Now heavy stagger weapons are meta and as a result have much lower time to kill.

You can still do the same things people used to do on 1.6 or whatever. You just have to adapt and use a different weapon. Salty’s billhook is a good example. That thing just absolutely puts most of his other weapons to shame.

The point here is that it has absolutely nothing to do with the “coop experience” that’s making it different for you. You were using underpowered, non-meta load-outs before and now that those same load-outs are extremely meta you’re getting all giddy in your pants and telling everyone else who is lamenting about their bladed DPS weapons sucking to “git gud” essentially.

LOL

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this game just feels like crap to play now honestly, instead of playing i sit on forums now reading what everyone else is feeling and im in the same boat. I just play league now and wait for changes maybe if not, ill beg for refund.

I feel like it’s mostly because you’re not at max lvl anymore. At hero lvl 34-35 I find legend to be really smooth pretty much as it was pre-WoM.

And today they apparently even nerfed every difficulty it seems.

I didn’t know that falcaxe, exec sword, dual axes, 2h sword (kerr) … etc. were ever considered UNDERPOWERED non-meta garbage but okay. Liked using those before, still using them now and they all work the same, as viable as ever.

Anyway, still not seeing any logical points being brought up whatsoever.
Everyone just recycles the same old “Everything is bad and feels terrible and I can’t explain why and the only suggestion I’m capable of producing is REVERT ALL, FATSHARK” and when that fails people start weeping about how offended they are.
Textbook example of how to argue online without any actual arguments. It’s funny how it always goes the exact same way almost as if there was an actual textbook for it.

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@Voidq

LMAO

Dual axes were underpowered garbage compared to what they were on the previous builds of the game when 2.0 went live on Tuesday.

I am not sure where they stand now after today’s patch.

But that doesn’t change the fact that you’re objectively clueless about this game.

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I guess I’m also a hacker then when clearing Cata with these underpowered garbage weapons and everyone in the lobby having 180+ ping.
Yikes.
Completely unplayable.

You’ve heard it here first folks. If you’re able to adapt to minor changes that makes you objectively clueless, naturally.

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And now you turn to condescending statements about skill level. LOL

Just pack your s*** and leave dude. Your “feedback” isn’t constructive at all and basically no one agreed with you anyway.

Personally I didn’t find the changes that daunting but that’s a different story entirely.

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Had you not poisoned the well by attacking everyone who’s unhappy, pretending all their complaints are invalid (“try actually reading”, “try to adapt and learn”, “whiners”), like they haven’t read things and haven’t adapted and learned, and had you not intentionally been obtuse, pretending there isn’t a debate over actual difficulty vs artificial difficulty, you might’ve gotten people to engage with you.

But it’s evident you don’t actually want to engage with them, you would have taken a look outside of this thread if you did. You wanted to provoke people, that you could look around and act like you were in the right and there’s no validity to their complaints, that they’re irrationally angry and bad at the game.

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Locking post as I’m not comfortable with where this is headed. Much love.

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