Time for another Community Cataclysm Playthrough

Yes agreed.

I do think the playtrough could help. What i also firmly believe in are vermintide guides. We don’t really have alot of content creators sharing builds/tips/ tricks/ mechanics (also cuz not rlly alot of players). We did have jsat (idk if he is still active) and steam guides but there is so much yet to be learned. Also a better tutorial or default info about stuff accesible ingame. Or some kind of discord that explains every mechanic, default bp’s. I know some people out there can make crazy discord servers which would help with the lack of info spread across everywhere.

1 Like

I think thats a big reason players ragequit. Mostly out of shame or feeling of holding the team back, or scared of judgement. I even left because someone was blaming all his mistakes on me.

1 Like

Hmm yeah thats true but you would need Fatsharks permission I think to link it to the official discord
Yeah Jsat was really good at explaining things on a fundamental level but you know people would still take the p1ss out on him on reddit for no good reason
I also give people the benefit of a doubt that they maybe dont want to read tutorials but have a visual presentation instead

1 Like

Jsat honestly learned me so much when i started playing. Does he really get hate? His tips like staying together, find someone in the group that looks like he knows what he’s doing and stick to him was also a big tip that helped me. Later on the mechanics of dodging, kiting, ledge climbing/dropping, effective dodges. Steam guides also helped me in the beginning, they might not be perfect, but for a player who is new and doesn’t want to understand every choice they are a good beginner resource.

To stay a bit on topic. In the beginning i went to legend i am sure i got carried alot but i think a difference is players that wanna learn and improve and players that don’t, and i think a big part of the players you described mostly don’t wanna learn. Yes there might be players who don’t know they are doing something wrong and even don’t realize it and blame others, which is fair as you probably don’t know you did something bad. The best thing is to let them know and also say why that is. Coaching runs might help but i think only for the type of players that wanna improve or realise something they are doing is wrong, and not for the other type.

A big thing also is if you look at events most players don’t know how they work, which is understandable as it’s very hard to find. So they just wing it or use community strats, like fort bracknshruke everyone stays at cannon and then they get cannonball and rush portal, is this the best strat? No, on higher difficulties you’ll prob get overwhelmed depending on careers, but it’s so set in stone by the qp community that everyone does it, yet they don’t understand why or how. So i think info is important, maybe a youtuber that shows specific spots on a map to hold, it wouldn’t work all the time but a big part of players just like to be told what to do indirectly ofcourse. “(If this guy does it, i’ll copy, even if i don’t understand, if it works it works)”. So instead of explaining mechanics and systems is the best explanation, i think for the good of the community more direct tutorials could be good. Just like steam guides are, kinda. Nobody wants to think their build themselves and use a ‘by the looks of it’ super complicated bp calculator. I’ll prob went way of topic

Nah you are good, atleast you are giving some useful input

I mean yeah if people want to just finish the game and move on thats fine but I think people who do want to learn shouldnt fall through the grid.
Steam guides are great for new players but maybe some of them are to detailed for a complete new person.
Well I was aiming for people trying to get into Cataclysm but Thats anothero issue on itself

LIttle off topic: I remember one instance when people would call out Jsat for being Fatsharks helping hand
Not sure if it was the survey he did I cant remember, but he was called all sorts of stuff which to be honest angered me

1 Like

Getting more players into cata can only be a good thing. I’m all for guided runs and coached runs, even reviews as it helps the player in particular + players watching + it also teaches what to do in certain situations with a combination of enemies, like a boss + horde, or even teaches good spots to kite or fight in.

Yes that’s true, but for players getting into legend or cata i think they are not too detailed. Speaking of personal experience.

I think the best solution would be what you proposed, and maybe letting players know some tips ingame if you see they need it, without forcing yourself, just be like 'hey i see you keep getting grabbed by hook rats, you can dodge them when they are about to grab you" obviously the player will not be a god dodger the second you say that, but he will know you can do it and he will only improve later down the line. giving tips on positioning is already a bit more trickier to do, i personally use come here command and if 3 others are ignoring me, i give up and join them, as i’d rather be with 3 in a less optimal spot then alone in a good spot, generally speaking.

Edit: one thing i’d like to add with my previous comment was that psychology also is a big reason of certain strats that exist ingame in quickplay, in events especially. Looking at convo of decay or fort and others. But thats a whole different discussion as it could make events too easy etc etc

That honestly is another challenge in itself
How do you explain certain mechanics without getting to much into detail and avoid getting the new player confused because you can also overwhelm them with information which is not a good thing
And that is exactly the reason for me creating this thread so these details can be discussed

I see.

Ok let me try and explain my views on this.

First i would rework the tutorial. The things i would add in the new tutorial would be basics like using ultimates, blocking, dodging, switching weapons, attacking, push attacking, pretty straightforward stuff. I would also include tagging and general tips like staying together.

After the tutorial you play a bit, you get explained how hero power works, how crafting works etc.

Inside a map i would put tooltips or more ‘immersion friendly’ options like something that shows there is an item nearby, such as grims or tomes, without ruining the exploration or the jumping puzzles, also fix jumping puzzles to actually require them to be done instead of jumping and grabbing from below.

I would also lock legend difficulty, tbh i don’t know if it is locked or if they changed it, but i would lock legend behind a hero power req or lords req.

I would also while playing, starting from champion difficulty, add something that says you can push assassins out of the air, or dodge hooks, leeches etc, maybe add a training ground in the keep, which would help with that.

General things i would add some kind of event book inside the keep or voice lines which indicate to players they can do something. Like ‘hey we should get the cannonball together’, more lore adjusted ofcourse. I would also wanna see improved dummies, also be more reliable with stagger talents and make some bp’s more accesible (an idea would be to add for example a chaos warrior dummy and show that you oneshot it, instead of showing dmg, ofcourse still a way to minmax and show dmg for those types of players) also more clarity on which properties work on which enemies, could be an enemy kind of book inside the keep or something.

Those are just rough ideas, things like ‘event book’ are ofcourse examples, they could be implemented in a variety of ways. Also there can be done alot with the keep.

It’s ofcourse a fine line between not removing the discover factor of a game and randomness by giving too much info or making it TOO accesible, But there could be improvements right now.

Also updating their Wiki, or working together with them (idk if it’s their wiki or not). It’s a bit difficult for to answer for me tho because i will look for answers very fast on 3rd party sites, but it shouldn’t be like that or atleast not this severe. too much info is ofcourse not good aswell

1 Like

I dont quite understand why you feel so strong about those people. Its Cata. You dont play it to make it through the map. I encounter people who obviously dont know what they are doing every day and all that does is amuse me.
Waystalker not noticing the Patrol sounds nor two wheel messages? Pulls Patrol, quits, has the luck to get into the same lobby again via QP after we dealt with it and pulls another one half way through the map. Happened Yesterday. Makes me actually giggle writting that.

Sticking together is also …not what usually happens. Whoever I got picked up, or picked up from my FL and me just stick to each other and we move through the map at our pace. The other ones always catch up. You either have to stop for a Monster, Pat, a beafy wave, or they just happen to be laying tied on the ground right infront of us.

Iam really not sure what you want from your Cata experience. There is nothing important at the end of the map and it feels a lot better if everything went wrong and you still made it into the bridge.

1 Like

As far as i know he is gone for good, he said in that podcast Aory is doing with his bud that he doesn’t want his pupils to see him streaming and stuff, a decision which resulted from him becoming (more?) serious in his job. He is now managing e-sport events for his school district too which sounded pretty neat. Go listen to it if you want, was a nice nostalgic flashback, like a last hurrah from jsat.

1 Like

That’s great to hear. Thanks for the update. I can understand him wanting to be a bit more private because of teaching.

That’s some good input, thank you

Basically yeah you are right but people also need to understand the different intricacies like special spawns, threat value, boss triggers to really put it all together.

Because I fear when you tell them, don’t rush ahead - you need to explain to why this is bad - because I.E. you trigger a boss when a horde is inbound for example.

I have a vision of the basics in my head, it’s more of not overcomplicating these intricacies what’s bother me and explaining it in an enough easy way for them to get a grasp for it.

And tha shouldn’t be the norm for Cata players

You shouldn’t have to put up with people not knowing what they will cause when running ahead, away or whatever.

I think if people understood, they would maybe do it less - or atleast that’s what I hope

Yes that’s also a good point. I do think only rush intervention is kind of a very usefull info to know. The amount of special spawns, cooldown timers between hordes, threat values are all optional and not really required to be given to the player inside the game. You mostly get a feel of those things when playing alot, same with boss triggers, it’s mostly experience and i hope that someone who is going cata atleast knows most boss spawns and that rush intervention or pacing exists, but in qp i don’t really expect players to know all that, those situations, like pulling boss + horde Will happen sooner or later and i don’t think the game should let you know all potential boss triggers, 3rd party sites or guides are perfect for this as they are more advanced but not really required to have a complete understanding off, if you know what i mean? Like before i knew there were set boss triggers i just knew certain spots had a big chance to give a boss just by playing those maps alot. Rush intervention would be good to know but actually also not really, because if they teach you to stay close to your team or in proximity then rush intervention doesn’t rlly matter to fully understand.

The Double/Triple XP weekends have got a lot to answer for in that people blasted up to level 35 and think that automatically makes them Legend/Cata ready.

I am also very wary of people telling other people how to play a game they’ve paid for. Things like “Don’t rush ahead” with some reasoning is fine, but who’s got time for lengthy explanations mid-game?

Also, spamming “Come Here!” Is almost guaranteed that I don’t go there. being bossy is annoying.

The OP’s entire opening paragraph could describe anyone at every level. IF you want to see idiotic mistakes go to Champion and Veteran. The runs get significantly harder because people just do dumb stuff, triggering patrols, tootling along at one mile and hour wondering why it’s wingsuit assassin central, going toe to toe with a Spawn as RV with 1h hammer… and so on. This is the nature of QP (and people in general). People who play like this often get thumped about, killed, hooked, poisoned and generally battered through the level - BUT A LOT OF THE TIME THEY’RE HAVING A BLAST and don’t see the need to change. They’re having a great time and consider bosses/hookrats/assassins as part of the game and dying is just something that happens a lot.

Putting this line in three quarters of the way through a rant-post gave me a chuckle.

If you’re expecting people to not do dumb stuff in QP, I’m not sure where to go with that. Unless good players actively change their behaviour to support those less capable then it’s an echo chamber. People who stay, get downed a lot, but keep fighting should have your support during the run surely? Playing as Kruber alongside a Sienna who gets downed a lot, you’d stick with her? Help her back to her feet? Or expect her to suddenly improve to your level? Your own behaviour is the only thing you can improve in QP, If it rubs off on someone else - great.

Everything else should be accepted as part-and-parcel of QP.

1 Like

Not gonna lie, I am getting pretty tired of people misreading the post and coming up some sort of ‘‘edgy’’ reply.
I have never said people aren’t allowed to play for fun neither have I ever said that I spam come here or act in an aggressive way.¨

You offer no constructive options to any of this thread other than coming in here feeling offended and actually shifting the blame to “good players”

Great, you aren’t making any sort of effort in any way to improve or are you just blaming everyone else then?

This thread obviously is directed at people who WANT to improve.
If you think that you have nothing to improve upon great, you are the best.
Keep on walking.

It’s greatly about cata qp. Champion an veteran being bad is fine and you don’t expect them to know stuff and just run around blindly. But in cata you expect some kind of knowledge. Meme builds in cata are fine because the most fundamental skills stay in the player with whatever build he is using. There is a difference however, if a player in cata is new and maybe lets his team know thats great and i’d be happy to help anyone asking or even just accepting critisism. But it’s a difference between players willing to learn and those who ragequit, blame team, kill you because you touched them with 1 tick of conflag fire, rush forward because it’s easy untill i die. For me it’s not about if we fail, it’s how we fail and how the mentality is. I have stayed in groups even if we failed tons, just because it was fun. And i 100% agree that my own behaviour is a big part.

The thing is about teaching players mechanics who maybe don’t know them, or how it would be best to let players understand certain actions. Ofcourse the players who want to learn, as you will always have types of players in qp that don’t want to learn.

1 Like

Yes I am ware that boss or patroll pulling will eventually happen, but what I would like to do is show people how to successfully come out ontop of this situation.
You can get out of most difficult situations with the right decision making or positioning.

Rush Intervtion is advanced for a beginner yes, and probably helps to know.
I was just saying that if you explain that if you run away from your team this thing called rush intervention is triggered and that makes the game harder for yourself and your team which isn’t necessary.
I was think if you explain it why it is bad people might understand why it is better to stick together.
Not only for survival purposes but also you trigger stuff that is unnecessary.

1 Like

I get that, but this is your expectations and people who’ve paid for Cata gonna play it whether they’re any good or not. Making dumb mistakes as Champion won’t suddenly stop when they play Legend or Cata, unless they’re nurtured and shown how to get better by someone who is prepared to invest a little time.

This is my point about the XP weekends, if people have got to the point they think they’re ready for Cata without knowing whether to pull a patrol or not, then being in a Cata run isn’t suddenly going to make it a big revalation to them. Going into Cata in QP assuming everyone is going to know higher level “habits” is setting yourself up for disappointment I think. People who shouldn’t be there are. This used to be complained about a lot when Legend was the top tier.

@Radina.Shevu post#20 probably summed it up better than me. Expectations of other players in Cata are miles away from reality, and always will be.

1 Like

I know that. That’s why i adjust depending on how good my teammates are. But it still bothers me when someone does basic things like rushing alone, or blaming others for their mistakes. I know thats in a persons nature and i’ve done it aswell.

This isn’t about what to except from qp tho, it’s about how to teach players who wanna improve and learn in an easy to understand, not overwhelming matter.

Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu