Ah… So you just don’t know what you are talking about, got it!
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Do you have any reason for escalating this into an argument?
Have I offended you in any way?
Regardless of difficulty, player’s feedback should be listenned to. Yours like mine. But please remain polite.
As a cartoon character once said:
“I’m not your mate, pal”
(edit: if you are “eating” ammo with the flamer, consider this: the weapon has great DoT capability and it’s worth tap firing it. Pair it with a Vet’s coherence bonus and tada! Sustain solved)
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I am sorry but you are wrong, you can stagger/push back Crushers with primary fire 
And I do know the difference between Crushers and Maulers or Bulwarks for that matter 
Yeah Bulwarks are a pain.
I used feats 3x times ye: read it why. U use 3x feats to make this viable.
When do most people use Bolter on zealot?Yes i did, casue i had a near a Amazing Bolter in the Sire Melks Shop right at the End of the Beta for like 3k Money. I have nearly 300 Hrs and there isnt one Guy using Bolter on Heresy or Damnation on Zealot, why cause Flamer is much better.
All the Drawbacks from Bolter you cant compensate on Zealot, on Vet you can, but only if you take reload Feats and so on and loose other very Vital Feats. Having infinite Nades and Reload perk fells a really hard choice which is super nice. I ten ddo do Infinite Nades but 30% Reload on Elite Kill on Bolter. No Bleed on Nades. The Good thing is, the Reload Buff is saved even ehen you do not reload instantly. Nice feature aswell and i was very astound to see this. Yes it doesnt mention a timer, but you know FS…
Oh before i forget, +20% DMG on Zealot if you choose so on Feat for Ranged Weapons in Close Range. Try that on Flamer 
1+4/Recoil doesnt matter on Bolter on single shot, yes sure m8, its not like your crosshair is all over the screen but okay, especially on bolter without stability in all that RNG Hell
Wait like i mentioned FEAT, but it uses up Stamina… MORE COMPENSATION FOR USING BOLTER APPROPIATE
1+4/ Yes RNG, doesnt happen on Flamer, NO RECOIL
2+3/Oh wait, Flamer u think its Animation are longer no its not. Its about the same if not entirely the same time. ( if you have reload on empty mag, its amazingly fast)
U say Bolter annihilates a whole Screen, oh wait Flamer does it even better. With Flamer Hordes are a piece of cake even heresy or Damnation. There you have Stagger like crazy aswell.
and it goes through shields and Teammates aswell.
Also the Bolts get soaked up on Armor, the Flamer doesnt. You can even shoot through shields.
Yes i dint mention Flamer casue its obvious too and you talked about Bolter being this and that. But youre the one that should ahev mentioned Flamer not me. Its another Argument for me not Nerfing Bolter.
Also DMG is not all. Its the synergy of all mentioned. Bolter has one DMG and thats it.
So powersword is strong cause you can “Cleave through Hordes” lol
its exactly what i said. peopz only look at “how good you cleave through “Unarmored Enemies””
oh well you cant do that with a Eviscerator can you. I bet i clear the Horde faster than you, with a Eviscerator than you with your Powersword believe me. While you hit activate all the time for 2 swings i already took down half the Horde with my Horizontal Attacks 4 in a row. (TiES UP LIKE CRAZY MAN. Push block attack, one Heavy and 2 lights “fluidly” in a row. all perfectly Horizontal sweeps!
Thunderhammer kill Armor like nobodys business. It will not Cleave through multiples but still does the Job. Also it does slight AoE every time you do Activaton and hit something. Also HUGE Stagger on everyone except Mutie. Can Oneshot Mutie/Flamer and even Reapers on heresy on Headshot, maybe even on Damnation. 2 shot Crushers on higher diffs on Bodyshot. How many Swings you need on Powersword? at least 4 swings.
Forgot to Mention, toughness is a HUGE FACTOR TO CONSIDER aswell!
Sry did i forget the Ogryn with a Butcher Knife before and especially after using his Dash when he gets what like 25% more Attack speed. You clear a horde in seconds, all alone no problemo. And all that with light attacks, hehe
You say Counting Flaws doesnt make up, but one strong point for the weapons does for all it MULTIPLE draw backs., to be nerfed Really?! 
Yes i mentioned hard diff, but its +Argument for not using it on Zealot, your better of with Flamer in practically every situation. Flamer and Thunderhammer, or better Tactical Axe/ Knife or Eviscerator with Crit chance to tank it all out and use your Ulti all the time. Braced Autogun but the Heavy one (brown) is also a incredible nice Jack of all trades. This thing Shreds everything no Carapace
“Lore Accurate”, yes it is. And thats good, but Thunderhammers Power Swords are lying around and are handed off to ex Cons like Candy is?
So my Lore Accurate was mentioning the DMG and how it should be. You refer to Ammo is scarce. So when you get a bolter you certainly will have no Problem getting Ammo, right. But the Bolter is also used on Humans not Astartes casue its a Psychological Factor. Astartes normalyy dont use Bolters on Humans casue its a waste of Bullets. Unlike you are from the Iron Warriors and have fun blowing them up lke we do in DT. Yes its exact whyt i had n my head when reading that Book. You need one shot on Flak which is totally fine. Multiple hits on Carapace. I think its around 8 Bullets on Bolter, something like that. Maybe 6 depending on diff.
You see all has it drawbacks, why look only at one aspect, rather than look at all of them and ll the hard hitting Weapons. Its good Balance when it comes to Weapons (Except Plasma, plz Heat only no Ammo Pickup)
HAve you tried Lasrifle on Vet. Man that thing shreds like crazy, maybe even better than Bolter. But you have tons of Ammo and you will not run out when only using it on Elites and Specials. There is only Plasma good for Carapace and Bolter. So thats perfectly fine at the moment. We wait and see tommorrow for the Grav Gun and what it can do on Carapace Amor. Should be good right. Its used for Siege Warfare and Void Battles.
Look at V2, one shot this SPecial , one shot that Elite with the right Breakpoints and your Good.
NO WE DONT HAVE BREAKPOINTS HERE TO CHOOSE FROM. They ar already on the weapon so to speak. Its the same as in V2 why dont people see this i dont understand. They didnt put in Power vs. cause theres already too much RNG and stats you can add. Where do you wanna put them. On your Weapon Trinkets?
All I was saying is that a reduction of ammo would perhaps encourage veterans not to waste precious bolts for mere poxwalkers and have to use it more for specialist reasons.
140 rounds, with ammo being littered everywhere, is extremely generous 
Edit: a few things you said about the flamer/zealot don’t exactly hold up, but sure. Lets agree to disagree!
Sorry if I offended you, but please don’t write stuff like:
What do you mean recoil doesn’t matter? Recoil does matter when there are multiple threats that take 3-4 rounds without a headshot (and usually 2 with). Bombers, Gunners, shotgunners, etc.
Do you want to tell me the animation isn’t long? Animation does take long when you have to kill that Sniper/Trapper etc. when mobs are all around you.
Do you honestly think that it kills stuff in 1-2 rounds? You downplay every intended flaw the bolter has while way overblowing its killing power to ridiculous levels. I don’t want to be rude, but do you really play on damnation? If you do I feel like you should know better.
No offense taken, I just wish for this discussion not to turn into a monkeyfest.
I found the Plasma gun to be better; more ammo efficient, more damage, weakspot damage (bolter has no weakspot damage) the ability to literally one-shot any ogryn enemy and to kill several in a single volley. The bolter felt it was made for people who needed an easy gun to kill things.
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Personally I’d probably try to buff some of its competition first. Like significantly decreasing the reload time on plasma and increasing ammo surplus on shotgun. Though I really have no idea how to make the revolver competitive.
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Ammo for autoguns!
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For the revolver to be competitive, I think it could use two variants:
(mentionned that in another post)
-Ancient revolver:
Big big bullets, low ammo count, basically a golden gun
-Standard issue revolver
Ammo count bumped to 70+
Reloads using a revolver clip (they already exist, look them up). Or massively increase reload speed.
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I think the revolver needs a massive weakspot damage boost. That would let it retain its theme on higher difficulties of placing careful shots to eliminate priority targets while not having enough ammo to use it on everything.
If you make the bolter only an elite removal tool, the kantrael is just better for that, except for crushers and maulers, but it severely outshines bolter for any other elite or special.
The strength of bolter is being a jack of all trades for ranged, specially for big enemies or big packs of mobs, for single enemies/ranged enemies/elite removal, the kantrael is just superior to it.
The issue right now is that it is a bit too good at everything it does to be able to do it all, but it has to remain a jack of all trades, or it loses the spot against something else, it needs to be able to deal with everything, but less consistently or efficiently than it does now, basically.
It can still be a jack of all trades, but maybe not be used all the time…
It’s not really that it’s a jack of all trade as much as because of it’s damage profile it can litterally murder anything
Sharpshooter makes any gun too strong, bolter on zealot is not overpowered.
Bolter is balanced by…
-a small mag with long reload (sharpshooter has an instant reload effectively negating 2 weaknesses at a button press, and multiple reload speed talents)
-bad recoil and weapon sway (sharpshooter can hold his breath to negate both and get a crit bonus on top)
Bolter has a limited ammo pool having a total of 15 shots in mag and 80 spare equaling 95 shots total (sharpshooter increases max ammo AND gains ammo on elite kill)
Bolter is balanced well by being clunky, delayed, and limited ammo(only revolver has less) the problem is that veteran cancels all it’s weaknesses. Maybe Bolter should be zealot only?
I feel a lot of the issues we have with balance right now, come from the fact that every character has only one class available.
When you compare this to VT2 with 3 careers per character on release, you see some stuff differently.
For example, as @Dakka1212 pointed out, Sharpshooter makes any gun too strong, BUT, it’s the only ranged career we’ve got! Kerilian’s waystalker also made her ranged weapons strong, and so did huntsman kruber (remember the period where kruber could one shot bosses?) and so did bardin with his ranged career.
If you compare a ranged career using ranged weapons to a melee career using them, of course the ranged comes on top, is the whole point of the career.
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Bolt gun is good, but has i flaws, even with the ability to blitz out at range, most of your shots will fall off there original target unless you are running one with 80% stablility. the other think is the minnium reload one can reach is about 3.5- 4 seconds that includes the 10% reload buff, tactical reload and reload on elite kills. so your out of damage is minimized but those factors.
MG XII is the best gun, and the only thing that would improve it would be buffing damage slightly and adding a scope.
we need Hotshot lasgun, and long-las sooner rather than later. Veteran with boltgun while good isn’t the best.
Technicly bolter is a weapon unfit to use by regular man. Its a weapon designed to be super reliable. Maintaining functionality on torpedoe boarding ? Getting hit by a plasma ? Its still on. Double weight if assault rifles, stocky build to resist shooting impact.
Even Space Marines on full auto can feel the kick.
Now DT is using iron sights ? Basicly it asks to break your shoulder and eject your eye. Im surprised you can even use this gun.
Just wanna throw in that I also don’t think it’s clearly BiS for Zealot. Playing Zealot I’m usually in the thick of things. Having a ranged weapon I can pull out quickly and immediately interrupt/kill a threat I won’t reach with melee in time (often because there’s a wall of trash in front of it) feels extremely valuable, and Bolter can’t do that. I’d take some of the braces autoguns, shotty, MG XII Kantrael, heck I’ve even found an autopistol roll that feels better to have in some circumstances. Then there’s flamer, but I don’t really trust PUGs to deal with specials so shy away from that, but can obviously be very strong in coordinated groups.
Don’t wanna detract from the points regarding what Vet specifically can do with it, but since there’s been discussion about its use on Zealot as well wanted to throw that in. The down sides feel like they balance it pretty well on Zealot. At least for me it forces a slower more cautious playstyle with him than I enjoy. I’m not here to feel like discount Vet and that’s kinda what Bolter on Zealot feels like to me
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