# The Book of Grudges: Because Fatshark Won't Listen **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 23, 2024, 6:31pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904 "2024-05-23T18:31:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 71
**Author:** ![dragomusic](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/dragomusic/32/77374_2.png) [@dragomusic](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/dragomusic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2025, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1405 "2025-08-08T18:44:53Z")
> [@harlekein](#): > > Haz 5, especially with modifiers can be really intense. I guess? Once you learn the game it still really isn’t that hard. Deep Dives were cake walks 95% of the time last I played. > [@harlekein](#): > > It’s a very different game, but if FS could take courses at GSG, Darktide would have been so much better. DRG does practically everything better but the gameplay. It’s incredibly tragic. > [@Archon\_Dagoth](#): > > Saying DRG is “easy” doesn’t justify Darktide having underperforming weapons It doesn’t, but it does explain why practically everything is “viable” in DRG. Although at the same time, everything is viable in Auric because of how easy that is. So it depends on your perspective. ---
**Author:** ![harlekein](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/harlekein/32/90957_2.png) [@harlekein](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/harlekein)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2025, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1406 "2025-08-08T19:46:38Z")
> [@dragomusic](#): > > I guess? Once you learn the game it still really isn’t that hard. Deep Dives were cake walks 95% of the time last I played. Hmm you’re right. I guess the most difficult part of Haz5 from the mission board were the team mates. Been ages since I played anyway. ---
**Author:** ![CobaltNinja](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/cobaltninja/32/71678_2.png) [@CobaltNinja](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/CobaltNinja)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2025, 8:14am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1407 "2025-08-09T08:14:21Z")
Haz 5 pubbing in my experience (at least in US East) has been a far easier and more cooperative experience than lower difficulties, same with Darktide actually. The folk who know what they’re doing and only seek the challenge play on those difficulties. DRG is definitely a lot easier than Darktide, though, and not just because of the power creep DT has gone through. Notably, the game has precisely _one_ disabler, which is an uncommon spawn and doesn’t kill you instantly. Positioning is still important, but not something to keep in the front of your head at all times - the game gives you frequent breaks. ---
**Author:** ![Archon\_Dagoth](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/archon_dagoth/32/113990_2.png) [@Archon\_Dagoth](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Archon_Dagoth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2025, 5:42pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1408 "2025-08-09T17:42:09Z")
When you say “one disabler” are you talking about darktide trapper or DRG mactera grabber? Bc if DRG, they have added more disablers since then: Ceilling tentacle has been a thing since very early, can actively down you if you don’t look up/use lights. There’s a scorpion thing with MK scorpion signature “get over here’ grab, that might pull you into the middle of a horde. The nemesis robot mini-boss with tentacle arms can grab and down you if you fight too close to it. ---
**Author:** ![CobaltNinja](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/cobaltninja/32/71678_2.png) [@CobaltNinja](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/CobaltNinja)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2025, 7:52pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1409 "2025-08-09T19:52:54Z")
I did mean the Mactera Grabber. There are a few reasons I don’t consider the others “true disablers”: - Cave Leeches are a one-and-done deal, once you kill them there are no more and so they punish lone wolfing more than target priority - The Hooktail doesn’t actively disable you - it can be threatening, but all it does is yank you. You remain in control. - Nemesis is a mini-boss and not a persistently spawning threat. It’s brutal, but doesn’t come back. ---
**Author:** ![Archon\_Dagoth](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/archon_dagoth/32/113990_2.png) [@Archon\_Dagoth](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Archon_Dagoth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2025, 8:49pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1410 "2025-08-09T20:49:30Z")
DRG feels easier not because it lacks disablers, but because its disablers are better designed, they’re readable, counterable, and rarely spammed. Darktide throws more disablers at you, but that doesn’t make it harder in a fun way, it just forces constant paranoia and punishes you through attrition, not challenge. Just imagine how the opposite would feel (DRG with Darktide director disabler spawns): **Start of Mission** : You drop in, light up the cave, and immediately hear three Cave Leech screeches from different directions. You’re forced to scan ceilings nonstop while trying to mine nitra because cave leeches can spawn randomly now. **Mid-Mission** : A swarm hits. While fighting off Glyphids, ten Mactera Grabbers swoop in from various angles. You dodge one, get grabbed by the other. Teammates scramble to rescue you while Hooktails yank them into the chaos. **Objective Phase** : While defending the uplink, Nemesis spawns mid-wave. You’re already low on ammo, and now you’re dodging tentacle grabs while trying to hold the point. Another Cave Leech spawns behind the terminal **Endgame** : You’re running to the drop pod. A Grabber, a Hooktail, and a Cave Leech spawn in sequence. You’re forced to stop, scan, shoot, and pray your team doesn’t get picked off one by one. Feels very artificial and not fun…harder? absolutely ---
**Author:** ![Ragnarok101](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/ragnarok101/32/78147_2.png) [@Ragnarok101](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Ragnarok101)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 2:57am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1411 "2025-08-11T02:57:04Z")
I will say it’s weird looking at the skill trees. Half of the talents seem designed off of ‘if the wind blows westwards for fifteen seconds while Mercury is in retrograde, do 2.5% more damage to enemies with 1 hit point’ logic, and the other half are ‘by existing automatically summon Cthulhu to devour the souls of your foes’ levels of power. It’s like they had entirely different people with entirely different mindsets about game design working on the trees. I don’t know where to begin untangling it, tbh. ---
**Author:** ![harlekein](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/harlekein/32/90957_2.png) [@harlekein](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/harlekein)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 5:24am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1412 "2025-08-11T05:24:17Z")
> [@Archon\_Dagoth](#): > > **Start of Mission** : You drop in, light up the cave, and immediately hear three Cave Leech screeches from different directions. You’re forced to scan ceilings nonstop while trying to mine nitra because cave leeches can spawn randomly now. > > **Mid-Mission** : A swarm hits. While fighting off Glyphids, ten Mactera Grabbers swoop in from various angles. You dodge one, get grabbed by the other. Teammates scramble to rescue you while Hooktails yank them into the chaos. > > **Objective Phase** : While defending the uplink, Nemesis spawns mid-wave. You’re already low on ammo, and now you’re dodging tentacle grabs while trying to hold the point. Another Cave Leech spawns behind the terminal Besides the cave leech and nemesis spawning all of this has happened. Instead of nemesis I’ve had plenty of times when a bulk detonator spawns mid event and (near) wipes the team. It was all fun. The thing is you have hard counters like the gunner shield and driller being able to make a safe room. ---
**Author:** ![Archon\_Dagoth](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/archon_dagoth/32/113990_2.png) [@Archon\_Dagoth](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Archon_Dagoth)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 5:32am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1413 "2025-08-11T05:32:42Z")
I think it’s totally valid if some players enjoy mechanics like insta-deaths or being completely disabled, where the only counterplay is extreme paranoia or ultra-defensive tactics. But I don’t think those mechanics should be mandatory. A lot of us simply don’t find them fun or engaging, and forcing them into core gameplay risks alienating that audience. Timed events or modded realms would be a great compromise, giving players the option to fully opt into those mechanics without making them a baseline requirement. ---
**Author:** ![Frish](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/frish/32/70212_2.png) [@Frish](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Frish)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 6:20am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1414 "2025-08-11T06:20:11Z")
You won’t catch me coming out against matchmaking freedom, but how are “mandatory mechanics” not _literally_ the game? Nobody likes being trapped or otherwise disabled, and yet it does add to the thrill and suspense of the game (when it works properly, see the countless threads on unfair bugs). You can’t water down the threat of disablers without affecting the high of deleting them, or the exhilaration of that tense will-I-won’t-I moment. It’s that high stakes combat that most sets Darktide apart from games like DRG imo. Deep Rock is a phenomenal game, but it’s a goofy chill sandbox type of horde shooter. Dark yes, but not grim 🤓 And I’ll again say that I’d be all for a sandbox realm so people could enjoy the game to the fullest extent. The reasons we don’t have it seem to be suspiciously close to the reasons we don’t have solo mode, as they specifically mentioned that you’d be hosting a local instance of Darktide which probably has significant technical overhead. ---
**Author:** ![Molonious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Molonious](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Molonious)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 4:33pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1415 "2025-08-11T16:33:18Z")
> [@Ragnarok101](#): > > Half of the talents seem designed off of ‘if the wind blows westwards for fifteen seconds while Mercury is in retrograde, do 2.5% more damage to enemies with 1 hit point’ logic, and the other half are ‘by existing automatically summon Cthulhu to devour the souls of your foes’ levels of power. > > It’s like they had entirely different people with entirely different mindsets about game design working on the trees. Aye, it really feels like these were developed in isolated parts without any real coherent design concept. Just looking at the right-side keystones for the original 4 classes we’ve got “hit things in melee get flat damage bonuses to melee damage” on Ogryn, Psyker gets “flat damage bonuses for all attacks on Elites/specialist kills with an upgrade node to potentially count literally any kill by the party”, Zealot gets “huge across the board crit bonuses to all attacks after 25 things die nearby”, but then Veteran goes “make only ranged headshots to get damage stacks that only apply to more ranged headshots, if you move you lose stacks”. Then the Arbitrator comes in with “Kill some, but not all, Elites/Specialists to replenish Toughness and get Doggo damage bonuses”. It’s kinda wild how varied these are, and not in a “wow that’s so flavorful” way but a “these feel like the were designed by different people” way. ---
**Author:** ![Ohwowsotrendy](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/ohwowsotrendy/32/22235_2.png) [@Ohwowsotrendy](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Ohwowsotrendy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 4:43pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1416 "2025-08-11T16:43:52Z")
100% agree ---
**Author:** ![Archon\_Dagoth](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/archon_dagoth/32/113990_2.png) [@Archon\_Dagoth](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Archon_Dagoth)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1417 "2025-08-11T17:14:30Z")
> @Frish Nobody likes being trapped or otherwise disabled, and yet it does add to the thrill and suspense of the game (when it works properly, see the countless threads on unfair bugs). You can’t water down the threat of disablers without affecting the high of deleting them, or the exhilaration of that tense will-I-won’t-I moment. The cons far outweight the pros in my opinion. I lost that “high” of killing a trapper back when I was graduating from damnation into aurics when I was new. Past that, they only feel like cheap, artificial punishment for no reason. Like a bug infestation, do you get a “high” for killing a single glyphid grunt in DRG? And maybe this is a “take a brake” issue for me, but, I don’t think any amount of brakes from darktide would change my opinion on trappers. ---
**Author:** ![CobaltNinja](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/cobaltninja/32/71678_2.png) [@CobaltNinja](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/CobaltNinja)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1418 "2025-08-11T23:31:13Z")
Just a nitpick here, but those are the _left_ side keystones. You’re still right, though. ---
**Author:** ![Molonious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Molonious](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Molonious)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 11:52pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1419 "2025-08-11T23:52:13Z")
Haha good catch 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Frish](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/frish/32/70212_2.png) [@Frish](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Frish)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2025, 6:56am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1420 "2025-08-12T06:56:47Z")
Honestly yeah, if shooting things (especially in the head/weakpoint) and seeing them 'splode didn’t activate mah neurons then I probably wouldn’t play these games. Honestly the Warthog onetap to the bugdome gets me every time 🥲 Just want to add, since I didn’t mention it before, that another aspect of disablers is encouraging teamwork. One person’s trapped is another person’s un-trapped, as they say (don’t they?). It’s the kind of ephemeral value add I appreciate in a co-op game, as someone who likes to support my team (even when they are dunderheads). I think as long as it doesn’t violate the “harsh but fair” principle I can probably get behind it. But as we have all experienced that’s a line that does get crossed. ---
**Author:** ![Ragnarok101](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/ragnarok101/32/78147_2.png) [@Ragnarok101](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Ragnarok101)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2025, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1421 "2025-08-12T19:46:02Z")
Updating on comms: [An example in dev transparency](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/an-example-in-dev-transparency/111732) ---
**Author:** ![MarkusKruber](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/markuskruber/32/98536_2.png) [@MarkusKruber](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/MarkusKruber)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2025, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1422 "2025-08-12T20:34:17Z")
Considering that there are several penances and achievements tied to it, I believe it is their intention. ---
**Author:** ![DornIvanotic](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/dornivanotic/32/84585_2.png) [@DornIvanotic](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/DornIvanotic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 2:01pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1423 "2025-08-18T14:01:35Z")
And now they have just created a loop, ogryn in havoc is just pre update ogryn in auric. Completely pointless ---
**Author:** ![Harridas](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/harridas/32/25941_2.png) [@Harridas](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Harridas)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2025, 9:33pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904/1424 "2025-08-24T21:33:41Z")
You should add this to the book of grudges, we still haven’t gotten Bardin’s songbook even after 6 years ☹ [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ll44B-olDzo/hqdefault.jpg ""Bardin" - The Song Book - OUT NOW!") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll44B-olDzo) [Previous page](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904.md?page=70) [Next page](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-book-of-grudges-because-fatshark-wont-listen/94904.md?page=72)