Temporary overhealth

Additional pool of health, but temporary only, as talent or passive for some class. I think it would suit best for Zealot or Slayer in particular, maybe for Foot Knight.

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Interesting idea. What do you think it would bring to the game?

Wouldn’t it be better to give it to the squishy classes? I can’t really see it doing much good for the tanky classes, since they don’t really have much of a problem keeping their health.

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I’m afraid I need some clarification.

Are you proposing that Temporary Health should be able to exceed the Maximum Health cap, or are you proposing introducing a new type of Health made specifically for exceeding the Maximum Health limit?

In the first case, would Temporary Health that exceeds the Max Health cap decay at the same rate as Temporary Health normally does? Will the “Overhealth” itself have a cap, or technically be able to stack infinitely? Would it convert excess healing from something like a Healing Draught into Temporary Health?

In the second case, how do you think it would work specifically? You’re saying it should be a “Talent or a Passive”, but how would it be triggered? Would it replace a Passive or Talent that the Careers currently have?

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I think I like the idea, depending on how it’s added.
Though I don’t see where it should be the best. On squishy careers, it will bring them on par with tank, but keeping their dps higher, which we don’t want.
On tanky careers, it will make them even more tankier, and they’re more in need of damage. But I can see it working on tank careers as a shield used to dish out dps without caring about block or stuff, to artificial boost their damage.

I personally think it would make the said classes even more tanky which they really don’t need to be and if you introduce such talent to squishy classes it either won’t be used or is simply too powerful in the tier.
I give that the idea sounds kinda neat but i really cannot see a situation where it could be used as a talent. Maybe it could be augment to abilities like mercenaries temp HP where it allows you to go past the cap or rangers smoke bomb but besides these scenarios i find it hard to tune in.

As others said, it’d probably break the current balance too easily if added to the existing Careers. For the more durable ones, it’d be kind of redundant and could put them in the “too durable” category (where Ironbreaker already, arguably, is), and for the more fragile ones it’d likely break one of the more important points of balancing, allowing them to keep fighting without much care about hits.

But if we do get new Careers (or characters) at some point (not going to happen anytime soon), it could be an interesting alternative way to making someone conditionally more durable. I’d say it’d be the best fit for a Career of middling durability otherwise, and probably tied to their Career Skill and/or primary Passive. Maybe limited to, I don’t know, half again their original health to not take it too far, and certainly needs to decay at least as fast as normal Temp Health. Most likely, should also act as kind of a one-time buffer, only being able to fill it up through healing items or their Career Skill.

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What about using it as a necklace trait instead of a talent? It might, for example, let you stack an extra X hp as temp overhealth.

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The idea was born in discussion about Foot Knight as Gromril Armor analog.
(Foot Knight can trade health for ult for more stagger and prolonging unbreakable shield.)
But it is also suits berserker like style of Zealot and Slayer.

About mechanic, I see it in the following way:
You have two health limits: one for green health, and one for white. The second can or can not be affected by Grimoires, depends on devs choice, should it be implemented. So this will allow you to accumulate a pillow of temporary health in front of your real health (with same decay rate I suppose?).
I see this mechanic suits better for tough classes than thin. I would suggest some kind of “dodge” mechanic that will work similar to Gromril Armor but that will looks like you was not hit at all, or invulnerability while in dodge state (if there no such a thing already, I do not know).

I think healing sources such as healing items or heal share should affect this additional health, because it is temporary anyway.

About balance thing, the big patch will come, new talents, difficiulty level, so I throwing ideas, that maybe or maybe not be implemented, or maybe my ideas will trigger other ideas (brainstorm-like) that will be implemented.

That would need to be severely limited to be balanced. There’s already been quite enough discussion about Curse Resistance and Extra Health being so strong as to be near-mandatory picks for almost everyone.

I could see a situation where the Extra Health Property was changed to this, giving an additional 20% of health that can only be filled with Temp Health (through the usual methods), though.

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Of course. Every new feature needs to be considered and balanced alongside the existing features, health-related or otherwise. If a new feature has potential to add something to the game, but there are other features that would make it overpowered, then maybe it’s those other features that need to be looked at. Especially where those other features are so strong that they’re considered mandatory.

I could see this as some kind of ult for a new career/character, though in functionality it’d work very similarly to a damage reduction. The only difference would be that losing some of the “overhealth” wouldn’t leave you at a deficit once it ran out.

TBH, though, I feel like health is a resource that is a bit too abundant in Vermintide 2 right now.

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I do not think, that Extra Health is mandatory. Curse Resistance - yes, but Extra Health is basically giving you ability to withstand more dot-like damage like bile of Chaos Troll or additional weak hit (or two in case of characters with damage reduction). It is good option, but not mandatory. For example in my WHC build, I gave up addition health (25/15 with 2 grims) in favor for additional stamina shield: yes, more health may allow me to take additional hit, but additional stamina shield will give me more safety against crowd and increased chance, that I will not take damage at all.

Build

Rapier
[+5% Crit Chance]
[+30% Block Cost Reduction]
[Parry]
BoP
[+10% Power vs Chaos]
[+5% Crit Chance]
[Scrounger]
Necklace
[+2.0 Stamina]
[+30% Block Cost Reduction]
[Boon of Shallya]
Charm
[+10% Power vs Chaos]
[+10% Power vs Skaven]
[Decanter]
Trinket
[+33.0% Curse Resistance]
[+5% Crit Chance]
[Shrapnel]

Talents:
Always prepared (+30% max ammunition)
Deathknell (+50% headshot damage)
Wild Fervour (5% crit chance for 5 sec when taggable enemy dies)
Hunter’s Ardour (melee crits and headshots restore 2 temporary health)
Resonating Faith (increases duration of ult to 10sec)

It’s still way stronger (numerically) than any of the other options. A 20% boost in durability against anything (and up to 100% against some things, as it gets you through certain breakpoints) gets compared to a 10% durability boost against half the enemies (DR vs. faction), at best a 50% addition to stamina (usefulness hard to quantify, as it depends on a lot of things including weapon choice and playstyle) or 30% increase in blocking ability (the less effective defense method, and for me of questionable use most of the time). That isn’t to say that there aren’t people and builds that don’t need that, or that can even use the lack of extra health to their advantage, but it still is way stronger than the other options. That’s why I used “near-mandatory”. The vast majority of builds use both EH and CR.

That’s getting besides the point, though, and is something that’s been (and probably will) be discussed more widely.

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