Stop nerfing plz?

The beginning of BBB was made of buffs and acceptable nerfs. Most of players that i know would like to play BBB. Nerf on billhook was a bit harsh though I don’t have opinion on that because i use rapier on BH and don’t play WHC and zealot.

But the time being, they started nerfing as usual like WOM which made half of player quit.
FS still listen elitists who are ruining your player base.

The real OP can be nerfed but regarding that everyone has different preference and play different game mode, OP can vary. So I wouldn’t argue with that but huntsman is of course broken right now.

However, for me, merc and shade were not OP at all. We would prefer huntsman+IB combination.
But elitists said that they are OP and FS did amazing job (which they are best at) on them .

Removing head/crit stagger is also so harsh on flamethrower and beam staff right now.
I can’t play IB anymore.

Most of player base say that this is not pvp game and being stronger is fun not like this forum.

If there is limited difficulty i would understand nerfing though, we have unlimited difficulty through twitch mode and spawn teak mod.
If you are strong enough, just increase modifier what’s wrong with that?

I hope FS will realize the true needs.

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That’s the thing, for you they weren’t overpowered, but for the much of the playerbase (and statistically/mathematically), they were. This isn’t an opinion only “elitists” hold and it’s not really fair to slap that label on folk who are anything but.

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I happen to think it’s gone too far the other way - there are too many buffs to weapons making a lot of content trivial and quite dull, and my play sessions are much shorter purely because many things have been buffed to the points of ridiculousness and I get bored much quicker.

And although I am here a lot, I am by no means a L33T player. No solo legend, no Legend FOW frame yet (because I refuse to cheese it and only attempt it in random groups) no zero-damage Legend runs and in Live probably a 60% completion rate in Legend QP.

I think the nerfs to Merc and Shade we long overdue actually and being stronger is really not fun.

Your argument that people should just ramp up the difficulty if they want it harder works the other way - if you want to feel much more powerful drop down difficulties.

I personally think that for the majority of players Legend should be a 50-70% win rate in QP (not withstanding the IMBA end events) depending upon the players skill.

Pre made teams are always going to make QP easier and I suppose the plan always was to have deeds for those kind of teams, but Deeds is a damp squib.

For players who ask for continuous buffs or rail aganst nerfs, go back to Veteran or Champion and see how much fun it is to barrel through the level without any real skill. IF FS keep buffing things, then that is eventually how Legend will feel.

In fact, Legend BBB feels like a headlong charge in a race to cause damage as there’s no real risks. Too many classes and weapons are just too good at everything now.

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Nerfing a buff isnt really a nerf… its tweaking to find the sweet spot.

Many of the intitial ideas were a heavy handed and they trivialised endgame content.

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That’s the thing, for you they weren’t overpowered, but for the much of the playerbase (and statistically/mathematically), they were. This isn’t an opinion only “elitists” hold and it’s not really fair to slap that label on folk who are anything but.

If a few people are abusing one mechanic or two like there’s no tomorrow.
Should it be nerfed for the sake of it, destroying said thing for the rest?

I read a lot of “I’m an op solo cata3 deathwish onslaught player duhduhduh”

But that’s like… probably 2% of the playerbase.

Would be nice if FS could give us more stats than “this is the most used weapon - thus we shall nerf it because the other choices suck and we need to level everything”

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That’s the thing, it’s not just a few people, FS’s telemetry on pick rates shows as much

In any case it’s not that hard to do the math on effective dps, effective health etc. between weapons/careers/builds

There are ways to measure stats to get a basic idea on what needs looking into for potential nerfs or buffs. FS doesn’t just slap things with nerfs at the behest of “The Elite” if they did we would have seen a lot of nerfs to a lot of things a long, long time ago.

It’s also important to keep in mind that the weapon rebalance mod that is serving as a template for this balance beta contains almost entirely buffs. Me and the other authors of that mod are among those “op solo cata3 deathwish onslaught players”. There seems to be a lot of misconceptions regarding Fatshark’s processes and also misconceptions around what the various sections of the playerbase are demanding. It’s really not as much of an “us vs them” scenario as a lot of people seem to believe.

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If only 2% are using it then why do you consider a nerf to such a thing “destroying it for the rest”?
If the 98% aren’t using it then they aren’t affected by the nerf, period.
If you are saying they are then it means it’s not 2% but 100%.

Also I hate that mindset that every base difficulty should be doable by anyone. Being insanely strong without the need of skill just makes the game boring. Legend should be really hard, Cata should be extremely hard.
All the current nerfs were justified imo. People crying about not being able to solo cata3 twitch mode deed onslaught and whatnot with billhook now are missing the point that game is being balanced around Legend (maybe Cata), not random modded difficulties or weave difficulties.

EDIT: I have played a game on IB with flamethrower on Cata and it’s still fine, idk what you are talking about.

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I do still think that the crit/head stagger have to come back in some form (or that you need to revisit all stagger options one by one). But I also do think that nerfs are mostly fine for the weapons. An overperforming one should not stay ‘a basis’ for buffs.

On the new completion rates of @Argonaut14, I do emphasize than we are on a beta server and therefore that the people you play with have a good chance of being skilled at the game. Way more than your usual player. As only the most invested players tends to switch on a beta server.

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As I wrote several times: I also find it more pleasant when weapons and talent combos are strengthened, because it is more fun.
The difficulty level can then be adjusted by more individually selectable modifications in the game itself.
At this point I would also like Fatshark to have more possibilities.
A strong weapon and/or strong talents might be OP on Champion, GOOD on Legend OK on Cata. But on Cata 2, 3 etc. with modifiers it looks different because it is irrelevant how a weapon performs solo, it depends on the overall combination of the group. And there will ALWAYS be a meta of the best combos.
Everyone here who thinks there is perfect balancing has no idea^^
The Legend players want the game to be balanced for Legend.
The Cata players want the game to be balanced for Cata.
Then some here want it balanced for everything.
Then there are those who think that everything is too easy because they are so good themselves and don’t realize that others can never reach their skill level and would be totally overwhelmed.
Others let themselves be pulled through on Legend and Cata by others even though they themselves are still too bad for the mode.
Etc…
It these experiences that the persons then make with certain weapons and talents, the opinions arise then what annoyed or buffed belongs, which is of course absolutely different since there is no objective yardstick for it.

It is impossible to do justice to all of you by constantly aligning weapons and talents to them, as they are fixed values.
To meet individual needs, more customizable modifiers are needed. This is the only way to give everyone the challenge they feel is appropriate.

But what’s going on at the moment is just a constant back and forth shift of values and no matter which patch is released any group of players will ALWAYS be dissatisfied because their favorite talent and/or weapon is too bad or others are too good etc.

Forever while those here on the forums who think they are the measure of the best balancing.

Give us strong weapons and talents so that we feel like heroes and give us opportunities to master even tougher challenges that even the best despair of, then everyone here is helped. But there will always be meta builds, no matter how much the values here are tweaked.

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It is completely fine that not everyone can just go there and complete cata missions.

The vibe I am getting from your wall of text is that you want to have power creep in the game.
Yes let’s keep buffing everything up so you can feel powerful af, I bet playing on Veteran and Champion is insanely fun to you as well. Let’s make Legend the new Champion and introduce even more difficulty levels/modifiers. Greatsword is a strong weapon and is not overtuned, I hate the feel of it, I hate playing it (cuz I love big weapons being slow and dealing a lot of damage), but when it comes to weapon strength it’s in a good spot.

The fact they are dissatisfied doesn’t mean they are right. It’s just like cheating, you think you wanna do it, you do it, you ruin the experience for yourself as it gets boring after 1 hour and you quit.

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Thats what i want.

That is the essence. If we could design our own level of difficulty individually, everyone would be helped. no idea why you think I would rather have it easy, but apparently my point has not become clear.
I personally mostly look for difficult challenges. but that affects me personally, what is difficult for me is too easy for some and too difficult for others.
And that’s what it’s all about. Everyone has their own individual feeling about what is difficult, what is good or bad.
The more possibilities we get to adapt the game to our needs, the more people will have fun.
And if it is too easy for you, you can make it harder.
But I think strengthening weapons and talents makes more sense than weakening when there is enough space for new challenges upwards, because it simply feels better to be able to use many good weapons and talent combos, especially in the higher range, instead of having to resort to a few builds can

It’s hard to believe you’ve thought that much about this at all to be honest. There actually is an upper limit on difficulty in many ways, if you keep tweaking enemy numbers you just hit a point where you melt peoples’ CPUs unless they’re running some mega rig, or otherwise break the game through hyper density. Relying on tweaking health, mass, and stagger resistance also has a realistic upper limit before it’s just not fun at all for anybody.

Regardless of how you individually tweak difficulty, unless there’s some semblance of parity between classes in a coop game you’re gonna have issues. If you make every career so strong they can just be very successful generalists at all times, then you tangibly degrade the element of teamwork and reliance on your allies, which is clearly something FS considers core to the game.

Then there’s the real elephant in the room, the mind numbing amount of work that would go into adding all these extra difficulty options and tweaking everything to get back to a semblance of class parity across all these new difficulty options. What you’re suggesting may be more work than FS has put into the game sum total since release, and that’s not meant as a dig against FS, but rather a comparison point for how ridiculous what you’re asking for is.

This is a fantasy, and one that would actively derail the balance we’ve been working for till this point. Anyway this spiel is probably unnecessary, since almost nobody seems to actually agree with you.

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There is actually an even larger issue than this. If you have (so to speak) unlimited difficulty options finding lobbies (especially for quickplay) or getting lobbies full will be insanely difficulty. Because the difficulty I find appropriate might slightly differ from someone else, so he will not join the lobby.

For quickplay you can solve this by adding a range but it is still a step back. For a single player game this form of difficulty customization would be appropriate. For a multiplayer game it isnt. We need some kind of common (and forced) grounds if you want to keep public games running.

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That’s the thing, it’s not just a few people, FS’s telemetry on pick rates shows as much

Do you have a link to the statistics that Fatshark uses? Or is it undisclosed information?

It is undisclosed, so we’ll have to trust FS’s word on this one.

I dont’t remember @Incandescent working for Fatshark and also concluded from his statement that he has seen the telemetry, so I assumed it was public.

they released some stats ages ago that had listings of how popular each career was (I don’t have the stats/post on me but I recall the gist of it).

Kruber was the least played character but Merc was his most played career by a significant margin.

Kerillian was the most played character and Shade was her most played career.

What I meant was this:

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I don’t expect any agreement on this forum which is filled with fanboys.
I’m just telling the overall opinion of my community which use another language.

I don’t know what is the fantasy thing you are talking about. I’m just saying that don’t nerf which is fine right now.
Specifically shade, merc and head/crit stagger.

If you imply Winds of Magic changes made half the playerbase leave, I will imply Winds of Magic changes made half the playerbase return, including me.

The moment you advocate for nerf aversion instead of game balance you show your hand, virtue signaling against the nonexistent minor elite who seemingly dictate the state of the game. Look in the mirror and you will see a minority unwilling to adapt, relying on crutches each meta provides.

Hiding behind a grander purpose than it really is - preserving the one playstyle you managed to exploit - you propose an overhaul to the philosophy of the whole game. In reality it’s as simple as having a meaningful choice between careers, each career having meaningful choices between both weapon and talents, regardless whether it’s achieved by buffs or nerfs, since the end result of balance between player and the game is the same.
When you try to defend something in particular, your arguements are stonewalled and you’re forced to search for external excuses.

Most players understand this and advocate for practical, tangible changes instead of a strawman, that’s why polar opposite extremes seem like minority viewpoints.

I have fun when I have meaningful choice and challenge. If you have fun when you feel mighty, your weapons feel strong and powerful and you want to leave challenge to the elite, I suggest you play Recruit or Champion and cleave the entire horde with a single strike.
Yet you will never hear this. Because this is a reflection of your arguement of tailoring individual challenge, and it is as senseless.

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