Some feedback on various weapons

Executioner sword: I like many think the nerf was a bit too harsh on exe sword, whilst the supposed buff to 3rd light attack doesn’t really help since there’s not much reason to use the 3rd light attack even with some extra crit. It was a strong weapon for sure, but it wasn’t overly strong outside of mercenary I think, and the change to attack speed will further exxagerate the difference between mercenary who can make up for the attack speed and say footknight. a 5% nerf would have probably been enough here. Also if you want to make the 3rd light attack useful, then re-add the 4th light the exe used in Vermintide 1 which meant you had a nice clean left/right, left/right attack combo which was useful when proccing swift slaying and would make completing the combo feel a lot more natural.

Dual daggers: Again, I feel the nerf is a little bit too harsh here, especially with the nerf then recent unnerf to sword and dagger’s light 3 and 4. I feel like people will just gravitate towards S&D now instead. I also think the reasoning for the change is a bit off and that it’s unreasonable to expect dual daggers to be a ‘finesse’ weapon especially because of its low cleave and the upwards angle of the first 2 attacks making it hard to actually score headshots, especially on chaos which is ironic since the nerf only affected the first 2 attacks, yet they are the ones that are less capable of headshotting. Again, how about a 5% reduction instead of completely removing the crit chance?

Dual swords: was hoping to like these after the change, but they still felt quite weak and I still found myself just fishing for crits on light attacks rather than using heavies or push attacks because it felt more effective. Having to rely on a push stab attack for armour damage also feels bad since you often end up pushing the enemy away from where you want to aim the stab attack. maybe give them more headshot damage on lights and heavies?

Falchion: I really dislike these changes and it goes against what I think the falchion weapon should be. It wasn’t great before the beta and changes to stamina and light attack 3 do help, but lights 1 and 2 still need something extra like increased cleave I think. The change to charged attacks however if what I don’t like, since I always felt like falchion’s charged attacks should be a more powerful version of the lights, with more damage and maybe increased cleave, but this change does the opposite and changes it to the elf 1h heavy 1 which is an overhead swing, however the falchion has diagonal downwards swings which you would think should hit more than one target. It just feels wrong and leaves the weapon suffering against density like a worse 1h axe.

Removing 10% crit from 2 of 4 light attacks is not a harsh nerf. Especially given DD’s damage output. In fact, that is a VERY minor nerf. It’s an even lower nerf if you can headshot.

This is a tip more than a response: use DD’s mobility to control your distance. If you can keep proper space, it’s pretty easy to headshot with. Especially against chaos hordes.

Agree. They still feel weak.

Agree.

100% disagree. Also, the devs would seem to disagree as a Falchion is a mix between a sword and an axe. Think like a machete which is used for chopping small pieces of wood, etc.

Falchion already has pretty high cleave and base damage against infantry. 7.07 + Linesman. That’s enough to hit 4 fanatics per swing on Cata.

If this were true, why would you ever use the light attacks? In fact, the heavies were a weaker version of the lights.

There are many attacks in the game that aren’t perfectly perpendicular to the ground that are single target attacks. It’s still a very good angle for headshotting elites.

You should never have been using heavies into density in the first place. Falchion has always been a very good anti-horde weapon. It just sucked so badly against armor no one took it. Now its armor dps is almost the exact same as A+F.

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100% disagree. Also, the devs would seem to disagree as a Falchion is a mix between a sword and an axe. Think like a machete which is used for chopping small pieces of wood, etc.

a machete would be good for chopping straight through things, when I see the charged attack animation on the falchion I expect that to cleave straight through just like the light attacks do despite being weaker.

Falchion already has pretty high cleave and base damage against infantry. 7.07 + Linesman. That’s enough to hit 4 fanatics per swing on Cata.

When I used it it just seemed to stop mid way through hordes a lot, historically it hasn’t been the most cleave heavy weapon like in V1 it hit i think 3 targets, but that was enough, meanwhile in v2 it just feels lacking for the amount of enemies present.

If this were true, why would you ever use the light attacks? In fact, the heavies were a weaker version of the lights.
You should never have been using heavies into density in the first place. Falchion has always been a very good anti-horde weapon. It just sucked so badly against armor no one took it. Now its armor dps is almost the exact same as A+F.

I liked to use the charge attack as a combo opener while I had a safe distance from the horde, then onto lights when they get close. To me that’s what I think the charged attack should mostly be; to cleave through higher density at a slower rate while the light attacks chop up the little ones. Or even a higher damage slightly less cleave but still able to hit more than one target, kind of like the first game. Could even give the charged attack the ability to cleave marauders or something for those moments when your lights can’t manage.

There are many attacks in the game that aren’t perfectly perpendicular to the ground that are single target attacks. It’s still a very good angle for headshotting elites.

This is true, but historically the falchion heavy has always hit more than one target, why change things now? It feels more misleading compared to other single target non overhead attacks because of the animation and the fact that similar angled light attacks from the same weapon DO hit more than one. If this is how Fatshark wanted things then it should have re-used the overhead animation from the axe all along, but it didn’t and it just feels off now. It would still be good for headshotting elites even if it hit multiple.

So you think 1H axe should be a cleaving weapon as well?

Well if the horde is particularly dense, it will be stopped. Same for most any weapon that has a working stop animation. That doesn’t mean that hitting 4 fanatics with a fast light attack isn’t a strong horde clearing profile.

I didn’t play V1, but in V2 it’s always been considered a strong horde clearing option. That doesn’t mean in can cleave infinite enemies though, nor should it.

Yeah, it didn’t really cleave through higher density either. I think it was almost the exact same amount of cleave.

Because the heavies weren’t used in any situation in the game. It was a worthless attack. Furthermore, it didn’t fit the design of a falchion. As I said, it should be a mix of a sword and an axe. Which in this game means a mix of horde clearing and elite damage. It lacked that before. There is no other reason to justify the heavy being a cleave attack other than the fact that it’s a cleave attack in the live game.

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So you think 1H axe should be a cleaving weapon as well?

Actually I do think it should hit 2 fanatics like it used to and that low cleave in this game just feels bad to play because of the sheer amount of enemies, but whatever. Also Fatshark logic lul, but either way Fatshark defined the 1h axe as a low cleave weapon and that’s fine, but falchion’s heavy was always a medium cleave type move and now suddenly it’s not. It feels boring and out of place to turn it into just another single target attack.

Well if the horde is particularly dense, it will be stopped. Same for most any weapon that has a working stop animation. That doesn’t mean that hitting 4 fanatics with a fast light attack isn’t a strong horde clearing profile.

Well no it kind of isn’t. 4 fanatics is nothing, what kind of horde is 4 fanatics? Plus a lot of times there’s mixed in maulers and marauders plus shields on top, I played for a bit just now and honestly the weapon struggled against a small group of maulers whereas before I’d have charged attacks to help make up the difference, even if they weren’t higher cleave than lights they deal more damage which makes up for the light attacks honestly lackluster damage, I swear I heashot a clanrat one time and it didn’t even die.

I didn’t play V1, but in V2 it’s always been considered a strong horde clearing option. That doesn’t mean in can cleave infinite enemies though, nor should it.

No one’s talking about infinite cleave here, hell I’m not even suggesting they increase light attack’s cleave value, but either the heavy attack needs to have some cleave to support it against mixed hordes and mass, or maybe buff the damage or stagger or lights since hitting 4 fanatics is well and good but if they’re not dying or my swing is stopped midway through because of something that isn’t a fanatic then it’s not good hordeclear.

Yeah, it didn’t really cleave through higher density either. I think it was almost the exact same amount of cleave.

If that’s the case then it still had higher damage, allowing me to clean up some of the trash and do a chunk of damage to elites mixed in, while lights just plink away. Also I’m talking about what could be; what if charged attacks had the same amount of cleave as pre nerf but could slice through say marauders so that your swing isn’t stopped half way through and it would be a good way to deal with multiple elites.

Because the heavies weren’t used in any situation in the game. It was a worthless attack.

Not true. In fact, I found myself using the heavies even LESS now, since light attack 3 was buffed and the light combo works just fine on say stormvermin, only time I’m using charged is against maybe lone chaos warriors.

Furthermore, it didn’t fit the design of a falchion.

Also not true, the new heavy attacks fit the design even less, thematically. It loses it’s identity and just becomes another single target charged attack like the 1h axe but worse because of the angle of the animation.

As I said, it should be a mix of a sword and an axe. Which in this game means a mix of horde clearing and elite damage. It lacked that before.

Then fix the elite damage, which they can and have done without drastically changing the heavies; buff light attack 3 which they did, which honestly helps a lot more than the changes to heavies do and they could also allow chaining heavy attack 1 and 2 into light 3. At the moment you can’t and you either have to chain heavies which is slow and clunky so changing the damage profile to a single target doesn’t help. OR you do heavy 1, light 2, light 3, or even just the whole light combo if it’s a stormvermin.

You need to go do a lot of testing on live. you seem to have some misconceptions about the weapon in general. This weapon would never have cleaved a single mauler and it would have done less damage to individual maulers. That pretty much goes for all of your other opinions about the weapon as well. It’s stronger now in every single situation. Not a single situation where its better to have the old attack.

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You need to go do a lot of testing on live.

Lol I just did play a game both on live and beta

This weapon would never have cleaved a single mauler

Well f**k me, I meant marauders, sorry. I got them mixed up. I meant small groups of marauders

Like I’ve been saying; groups of enemies that aren’t just squishy fanatics or rats.

Lights do more damage vs marauders as well

nope

Buddy, it’s simple math. Idk what to tell you.

Show me the math then

You have armory?

yeah but it crashes my game lmao

Don’t cllick on kruber’s icon and you’ll be fine. Remember to actually click each attack to show the damage profile at the bottom. Add 0.5 seconds to the animation time of the heavies to account for charge time.

To count how much you can cleave, do damage cleave of the attack / linesman modifier

Not too sure what you’re trying to tell me to do here but from what I can see ther charged attack definitely does more damage to unarmored than the light attack and I don’t see why that wouldn’t be the case unless you’re talking about DPS which I’m not.

OF course im talking dps

I’m talking about a single charged attack or 2 to start off a dense horde or group of marauders rather than having to spam light attacks

IDK what to tell ya bud. Agree to disagree at this point. I’m tired lol.

Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu