Some buffed weapons still don't feel competitive

Disclaimer: I’m mostly a Legend player. I don’t value my own opinion as much as I do other users here with a more technical understanding, this just how I feel about some of the weapons right now. I won’t be going into technical detail, only sharing my experience of these weapons, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
On to my completely subjective and probably misguided opinions.

Kruber

1H Sword

I honestly see basically no reason to use this weapon over other, much better, Kruber weapons.
It’s overshadowed by both it’s 2H counterpart and other weapons such as Tuskgor Spear, Executioner Sword, Longsword, etc.

1H Mace

Same as above.

Bardin

Warpick

It honestly seems like a super niche weapon and almost never a good pick unless building specifically for it with Slayer.

Kerillian

1H Sword

I think the move-set of this weapon needs a look at. It is pretty uncomfortable for dealing with hordes, forcing you to mix in the slow Heavy 1 to get a long enough chain to deal with hordes, and the buffs, while nice, don’t fix this issue. If it were a bit more proficient/safe with hordes I would definitely see myself using this one much more.

Elven Axe

Yeah… I still don’t see myself ever using this over other amazing Kerillian weapons.

Saltzpyre

Falchion

The falchion is in a much better state now, but is still completely overshadowed by other Saltz weapons such as the Billhook, A+F and Rapier, which do everything the Falchion does but better.

EDIT:
Ranged Weapons

Volley Crossobw (Shade)
Still a meme.

Repeater Pistol
Pretty mediocre, outshone by other Saltz weapons in almost every scenario except against Chaos.

Throwing Axes
Still suffer a lot from slow reload and low ammo. Buffs don’t really help shore up these main weaknesses.

Did I miss any weapon? Am I wrong about some of the weapons I listed?
I’m curious to hear the opinions of other members here :slight_smile:

5 Likes

I agree on Falchion. It’s a pretty decent weapon now, and much better than it used to be. But, it still feels like a poor man’s AnF, because AnF still has harder hitting heavy attacks and faster attack speed across the board. IMO, those two advantages outweigh the one advantage Falchion has in having higher cleave on light 1 and 2.

I would give Falchion a slight attack speed increase to make it a more competitive choice, so that it only loses out to AnF in damage, but beats it in cleave.

2 Likes

The 1h sword and mace are great on a huntsman especially if you don’t own any DLC, which is something alot of people forget to consider.

Warpick I agree still feels terrible. I don’t know what it needs but perhaps speeding up the light attacks might make it feel less awful on anything other than slayer.

The elf 1h sword doesn’t actually feel too bad vs hordes if you just spam the light attack chain with the usual dodge and push. Or at the least it feels much easier to me than using daggers on horde, and it’s armor damage breakpoints make it a competitor to the daggers if you don’t like using those.

The falchion’s only glaring weakness currently in my eyes is the massive delay after using its pushattack. This delay interferes with blocking, attacking, and weapon swapping. It makes the weapon feel sluggish and unresponsive.

3 Likes

It’s only really good for Slayer. Something needs to be done to make it a Push-Attack Weapon for others, since Slayer doesn’t use it for that as he as a Stagger Ult.

3 Likes

1H mace is effective. It is more mobile than X sword and 2h sword and it’s easy to get armour piercing headshots. It’s a fun weapon that is perfectly viable on higher difficulties that offers a different playstyle than others in Kruber’s arsenal.

Kruber’s 1H sword will always be overshadowed by Bretonnian longsword because BLS has better movesets .

Warpick is weird but fun on all Bardin classes. I like its quirks and don’t think it needs changing.

Light into push attack spam to clear waves and heavy attack cancel for armored targets. It kills cata SWs in two hits, has infinite dodges, a huge dodge range, can break shields and and gets waves killed rather quickly. I am not quite sure what more could be asked for.
Its by far the best one handed weapon, with round about zero let downs.

1h Sword from Kruber looks like a bad joke compared to that thing.

Thats not a problem that can be fixed without looking at all the elgi weapons and realizing that there isnt a single one that wouldnt be able to deal as much with waves as it does with armored targets. Thats why there is no need for a single target damage weapon.

3 Likes

The only thing Kruber’s one handed sword has over Kerillian’s is the Tank modifier on heavies. I don’t get why they thought increasing it’s headshot damage would fix any of it’s glaring issues. It still wouldn’t be great if there wasn’t armour in the game and everything was infantry.

  • The heavy attacks look good on paper for their speed, stagger cleave limit and Tank modifier, but because they can’t cleave through armour they end up being made useless but almost any Cata horde.

  • Despite being specialised for safe horde clear, it will run out of stamina doing the push attack - light - light chain quickly, and has an overhead as it’s third attack.
    — Making the second heavy faster and chain into light one would make for a decent horde clear combo.

  • The overhead can only be reached after two lights or two heavies. This is bad because it means, despite being a fast 1h weapon, it can’t chip away at armour in the slightest and does poorly when under pressure from elites.
    — A possible solution would be to make heavy one chain into the overhead.

  • I don’t understand why this weapon only gets three dodges. I know it’s Kruber but four would not be unreasonable, especially considering the Bretonnian Shield gets four. It should have a mobility edge over the Bretonnian Longsword.

  • I also don’t think a slightly lower inner angle block cost modifier would go amiss either. Something between the Rapier and the standard one, like 0.4 or whatever lets it reach some block breakpoints.

I’ve been getting the feeling that it’s got high horde dps, but I’m not sure how much that holds up when shields or elites get thrown into the mix.

I honestly don’t see a reason to use it over the Sword and Shield, a much more versatile weapon, besides the dodge count and distance.

2 Likes

I was excited to give it a fair go, so ran it with Huntsman with smiter, headshot damage talent and stacking crit to try to double down on the finesse buff it got, thinking maybe aiming the nice horizontal heavy slices at head height into a horde could give HS a good mobile horde clear option.

I dunno I just didn’t feel it, though I only did a couple of runs with it. Honestly even stacking as much as I could for headshots and getting what seemed like a pretty good headshot ratio in hordes it felt underwhelming and not even all that safe on Legend no less. Mind you if HS had Assassin and THP on cleave that might change things in their favour. For HS at least I can’t see a single reason I’d take it over, say, 1h Mace (even pre beta version).

I’m sure it’s good enough for Merc but that doesn’t count. I dunno which Kruber’s kit it even synergises with, or which one’s class identity it even matches with. To me it kinda feels like the clunkiness of using a 2h weapon (combo wise) but with none of the benefits.

1 Like

It’s quite the meme on FK with maximum attack speed. I had the same experience. It didn’t really feel that much better. I did notice the extra headshot damage on shielded SV, and that was it.

I think it’s supposed to be Huntsmen’s defensive horde clearing option, but as you highlighted Huntsmen gets by better with the Spear and the 1h Mace.

1 Like

I agree,

The Falchion still just is not up to snuff. I’ve said it before. Yeah it might actually be better for a Bounty Hunter than Rapier. But It still just leaves a lot to be desired.

I seriously think this needs to have Two things…

One… Light attacks need to be able to affect Super Armor again the way it was pre nerf. And it needs more stagger.

Cleave won’t do much good since you can’t catch that many in the weapon swings anyway. But Stagger would. Like the ability to knock away Chaos Shields.

On Another Note:
Over the past few days I went back and played a little Vermintide 1. I noticed that the Axe swings in that game are set lower on the screen so it was much easier to catch more targets in the swings with it… even though its got much less cleave in Verm 1 than it does in this game. I wonder if this might be a possible solution.

Both cleave 2 units at most

1 Like

To add to my original list:

Repeater Pistol
Still a meme.

Volley Crossobw (Shade)
Still a meme.

Throwing Axes
Still suffer a lot from slow reload and low ammo. Buffs don’t really help shore up these main weaknesses.

1 Like

Throwing Axes feel clunky and slow down game-play a lot.
I’ve made suggestions in [BBB] Ranger Veteran Fundamental Problems that should remedy those problems and offer more fluidity on Ranger Veteran.

Slayer solves a lot of Throwing Axe problems with mobility, stagger and attack speed (Increases throw and recall speed) Trophy Hunter also affects Throwing Axes. Still generally inferior to running 2 melee weapons.

2 Likes

The only one I can disagree with is the 1handed mace.

its niche sure, but its damn good when you build purely for it.

its my #1 weapon for Huntsman due to its combination of stagger and mobility (allowing me to reposition out of melee into a firing spot), as well as its easy headshots which combo with his headshot bonus damage.

Its also pretty damn good for a mobile Grail Knight build, you can 1shot stormies and due to its absurd attack speed you take only a smidge longer to kill other elites whilst having extreme movement.

Grail knight gets around its weaknesses of being boxed in by bringing along a sturdier weapon to get out of dense hordes.

1 Like

The elven axe has that flashy push-stab combo.
Except the combo deals about as much damage as a normal attack.

So in reality, there is little point.

It feels amazing. But the result doesn’t match what you see

And more stam. And more range. And more base damage on light attacks. It’s so far superior to elf sword in horde clear that I don’t really think that’s even the right comparison. Having said that, mace + sword makes 1H sword feel obsolete. You can use push stab chain to chain into sword lights with ms and then you have the better heavies. My question: how would you go about buffing sword for kruber? It’s amazing on wiz, but kruber has a g sword, mace sword, b sword and x sword. All the sword roles are kinda taken. In what way do you buff it that you don’t just replace an existing sword?

2 Likes

Tbh, I have been destroying with repeater. Idk why people think it’s weak.

1 Like

Why would you light attack cw’s?? The falchion heavies have pretty insane armor dps. At a certain headshot ratio, it becomes more armor dps than AF.

I don’t think it should exist. We don’t need another damn sword.

Edit: Actually I’d like an estoc for Saltz.

Falchion already does more horde dps than af. It also has more cleave. Does slightly less armor dps up to like 40% headshot ratio and then it does more from there.

Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu