Smiter talent seems quite underwhelming

From what I understand from the patch notes, Smiter just seems to not be worth picking… The notes say that smiter damage bonus at 0, 1, and 2 stagger is 20%, 20%, and 40% (and only on the first target hit, but that is the point of the skill I guess). Any other option still seems to be better though, since enemies will be staggered after the first hit anyways:

In comparison (assuming fighting one target):

  • Bulwark is 0%, 30%, 50% (and your team benefits).
  • Mainstay is 0%, 40%, 60%.
  • Power increase is 7%, 28.4%, 49.8%.

All of these seem mathematically better choices (especially when fighting >1 target), and only become even better when you are fighting together with a teammate.

And how does Smiter interact with, for example, a one-handed axe? Will it be pointless because that always counts as 1 stagger anyway? That would seem very counter-intuitive since you’d think Smiter would pair well with your single target weapon…


Aye that’s a problem I thought of with Smiter, I don’t know why you would take it to work around CC when you could instead take a weapon with good CC and get higher damage.

e.g. instead of taking the two handed axe, take the two handed hammer (as that can quickly go to level 2 now) and initiate combat with CC + either Bulwark or Mainstay slotted.

Because lacking Assassin talent, Sienna needs the Smiter for crowbill to not suck utterly.

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I think even for Crowbill Smiter might not be the best choice.

EDIT: Especially since power increase also benefits her ranged attacks as well.

With your math, 20+20 is still better than 7+28,4.

That’s a fair point I guess; if you take 2 hits to kill Smiter might indeed be the better choice.

True, I forgot about that. Did they make the transitions between blocking/pushing/meleeing any smoother on Crowbill or is it still a liability? On anyone else you could take another weapon.

How is the burning flail?

Edit: Breakpoints are going to be so confusing

I did some tests here that show some numbers. Just some simple stuff to get an idea.


Don’t have WoM, don’t have flail.
Crowbill is better now. You don’t have that huge gap of nothingness after a pushstab.

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Nice work. Those numbers seem to support my point I guess.

EDIT: Funny how the axe doesn’t seem to have any bonus unlike the patch notes said it would. How did you test by the way?

I used Handmaiden and Shade against the unarmored target dummy - no bonus power talents (besides the one on the stagger talent row when I tested it specifically) or power vs anything. Power 600, filtered out crits and headshots.

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Personally, I really don’t trust the game to give me enough time to hit a staggered target. Especially if it’s a beastmen horde where staggered targets get immediately replaced and they recover from being staggered extremely fast. Also Chaos Warriors. Smiter is basically free damage.

I don’t know how it works with axes and other things, but I’ve been having more luck with it while using flail (Zealot) and 2h hammer (Merc) than I am with the the other talents.

Those numbers are hard to argue with.

Had to make a correction - by mistake I still had 10% vs infantry on Shade, so I had to redo the Assassin numbers. They are correct now, and are the only ones that were incorrect.


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