Single Veteran talent swap request

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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I’ve never really tried asking for something like this, but I’ve been trying to fine tune a build for Veteran themed around the Double Barrel, and I think I’ve arrived at the best combination for me, which includes using the Combat Knife for armored elites and boss damage, which allows me to use the DB for fun. The only issue is that it takes a three talent investment in the bottom left part of the tree in order to get to the talent which increases clip size, which I consider kind of an important part of running the DB (you really feel the difference between two and three shots).

You do get 25% additional ammo and 10% toughness dmg reduction for the other two talents invested in order to reach the clip size talent, and those aren’t useless (especially with a low base ammo gun). But, there are far more valuable things that would be nice to take instead.

I feel like it’s a fair request given that the build isn’t (and still wouldn’t be particularly meta). But it’s also not awful either.

The swap would be between “Keep their heads down” (+75% Ranged Attack Suppression) and “Lock and Load” (+25% Clip Size, rounded up), which are very close to each-other on the tree. I’ve never taken “Keep their heads down,” and I doubt it’s very popular, but I could be ignorant about its potential (perhaps in bonus damage to suppressed style builds).

It would make Lock and Load available with one less talent investment, so you’d probably see people using it a little more frequently. Though personally, looking at my builds for Recon Lasgun, Plasma Gun, Helbore, Bolt Pistol, and Heavy Bolter (the guns I use most on Veteran in Havoc), I’d probably only really consider using it on the Heavy Bolter build (maybe) if it were moved, as it would be a two talent investment for that build. I don’t really use the Quickdraw Revolver on Veteran, but I could see it potentially slightly buffing that ranged weapon, as well as the other shotguns. Just pointing it out as I don’t think it would be game breaking, but might help make some niche, already underpowered builds a little more viable (Not calling the Heavy Boltgun underpowered, but I feel like if you were to take Lock and Load on it, it would be more of a side-grade).

I can make a Gameslantern page for the build and point out why I think the build needs the other stuff if it would help (but it’s based on using the combat knife and DB if that helps). I’ve played with it in some Auric HISTG matches and performed well, but nothing crazy. It’s really meant to be more of a “for fun” but viable kind of thing as opposed to overpowering.

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Shovel double barrel IS though. Also the point of locked and loaded being where it is, is so that you actually have to make a decision when you hit that part of the tree - do you want stamina regen delay reduction for the crit on las guns, do you want toughness DR for basically everything, or do you want suppression because you need to be able to make hordes duck for extra safety? Moving lock and load basically removes that decision making, or the need to actually spend points to get an incredibly good talent, and suddenly the only reason you ever pick that is if you don’t like having extra ammo. It’s not a good change. It works how it currently is.

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I apologize in advance because this got a little rambly.

Is shovel-barrel meta?

I mean, it’s not bad. Personally I prefer combat knife, but it’s not anywhere near the more meta stuff I mentioned in my post like Plasma, Bolter, Helbore, Recon.

I do respect the decision making argument though. That’s good game design. And while I agree with that, I still feel like Lock and Load is so far down there that the only time I’d really consider taking it would be on Heavy Bolter or Quickdraw builds. Maybe Recon or Helbore if it was on the way to the ammo efficiency talent? But I don’t even take that right now on Recon. Point being that it feels like a dead talent except on DB builds to me where it’s at right now. Nor do I think it would be taken as much as you say it would be by people trying to optimize their builds if it moved there, only because Keep Their Heads Down only connects directly to Kill Zone, and not the talents on left or right. Then again Locked and Loaded and Kill Zone together would be a strong, efficient combo. Hmm. Okay, maybe there would be more builds that take those together.

Also, I’ve gotta admit that when I made the post, the build wasn’t as optimized as I thought. I think while typing this comment and thinking about it more I may have figured out an improvement I could make to it, too.

When I made the post, my main issue was that I wanted to pick up Bring It Down (+20% Damage (Ogryns and Monstrosities)) as well as Rending Strikes (+10% Rending to all weapons), because without the former your Krak Grenades don’t one shot Crushers. But I also needed Serrated Blade to make the knife work well on Vet. So I just dropped Rending Strikes and Bring it Down, to take Serrated Blade and Grenade Tinkerer, so my nades would still one shot regular Ogryns.

I’ll just make and post the build to simplify things. CQC Vet (Knife + DB) - Veteran Build for Darktide - Darktide WH40k

The only things I can really swap would be Iron Will (+50% Reduced Toughness Damage if above 75% Toughness), Superiority Complex (+15% Base Damage (Elite Enemies)), Grenade Tinkerer (+75% Grenade Damage), and Agile Engagement (Not gonna type that all out). I could also drop a +25 toughness node in the bottom right for Skirmisher which might help with damage in order to grab a reload speed blessing. But it still doesn’t solve the inconsistent crit issue which the gun needs to activate its blessings.

I really wanted Agile Engagement, since it synergizes very well with a CQC style vet, which knife/DB match. So I just took it and dropped Volley Adept (+30% Reload Speed on Elite & Specialist Kill). But it’s a little short on reload speed. Especially because of how the tree is designed around the Blitzes, specifically that if you take the weaker options of Shredders or Smokes, then you get immediate access to respectively, the reload speed and movement speed ‘tax nodes’ directly beneath. I’d take that reload speed tax node in this build if I could. But I feel like Kraks are a much better option here.

Getting a little off-topic, since now I’m talking about connections and placement of other nodes.

You do get increased crit and reload speed from Weapon Specialist, so I tried dropping the Scattershot blessing on the DB to take Speedload. But it’s a little too inconsistent in the crit and damage output department. Felt keeping Scattershot increased overall efficiency.

I don’t consider this build meta. It works. It can even work in havoc, and in Auric HISTG, its great. But it’s a far cry from my plasma, bolter, helbore, recon builds. Probably even worse than my bolt pistol, nade-spam build. The main issue being that you’re not as good at dealing with ranged and specialist threats at range, which is one of the Veteran’s strengths. Plus your boss damage isn’t as strong as many other builds, though your impact on bosses is still decent with Krak’s damage and stagger, shout’s stagger and toughness, and knife. Good into twins, and good if you know how to tank a boss.

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The mag capacity talent is almost never worth the point (though I can see the case for double barrel). IMO it’s weak enough it should just be combined with Fully Loaded (leave the new combined talent where fully loaded is and just remove lock and load).

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That would be cool too.

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The whole point of the double barrel build is taking the weapon specialist node that reloads your gun so you always get a shell back from a melee kill. Then you get a couple melee kills and swap to a manstopper flechette db to become a different flavor of purg psyker. Bottom left side of the tree is not needed because you should never manually reload your gun.

I can assure you that this build is very meta.

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Damn, well, that’s sick. I didn’t think of that. I feel exposed. Lol.

Reload speed not as high of a priority.

Gonna have to try that out too.

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I mean yeah that build is better, but I can also see the appeal of wanting to build so you can just back to back blast things with it if you want to. At the end of the day if it ain’t Havoc you don’t really need to worry too much about optimising.

Always good to share build ideas though! Glad OP learnt a new way for them to play the weapon.

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Playing that way is also just fun. VT2 Bounty Hunter had a build that played exactly the same way with Repeater Pistol and they killed it ages ago.

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