That’s pretty backwards. It wouldn’t be the first time V2 accidentally created reversed roles, but shotguns have always been the kind of weapons you see given to tanky, frontlining characters. Obviously, clearly doesn’t work in this game because shotguns in V2 just don’t do what players expect, so tanky frontline classes here take sniping weapons while the anti-special, anti-elite, and support classes take the crowd control weapons.
Shouldn’t it be the other way? Huntsman literally doesn’t get a talent meant for the blunderbuss, but is currently the only Kruber that can use it well by virtue of his ult, and you know that ain’t because BB is OP! My god, I think I understand @souI23 dozens of threads/posts about the huntsman a little better now.
The sniper class is better with a shotgun instead of the bow or handgun… the tank is better with a sniper instead of the shotgun…
Don’t really see how Huntsman is specifically a sniper class. It’s a ranged focused career, and therefore gets big buffs to ranged weapon. Crowd control and AoE horde clearing weapons like conflag, hagbane and shotguns are really strong. Melee classes aren’t really inclined to take shotguns since they deal with hordes with their melee weapons, so they take weapons that allow them to kill specials.
I mean I dunno, shotguns are horde clearing tools. Is that not what’s expected from shotguns?
Seems like you’re talking about other games instead of this game.
This is a bizarre statement. Maim, Thrill of the Hunt, Shoft Crafter all synergize with BB.
I actually don’t know that. The only thing stopping BB from being OP is ammo sustain. Shotguns are insane in this game. Why else do you think FS had to remove ammo bashing? It’s because just bashing and shooting blunder was better than any melee weapon on melee focused careers.
Eh? Maim is a terrible talent (30% ranged damage to enemies below half health, useless on a weapon only good against hordes). Thrill of the Hunt is a headshot reliant talent meant for handguns and clunky to pull off on BB, Shotcrafter is good, except huntsman is on the backline shooting at hordes with his horde gun while tanks and elf are sniping the specials.
No, they do excel at horde clear, if they have ammo. If you have infinite ammo, then it’s really powerful, and if someone like Foot Knight has infinite ammo with blunderbuss, then you get a really tanky crowd control tank with horde clear on par with Huntsman.
Maim is perfect for shotguns, since once, say, 2 pellets hit and takes half health away from an enemy, the rest of the pellets will then do 30% more damage. Less pellets to kill an enemy, means more pass through and do damage to the enemies behind them. Also helps deal damage to CW’s with Huntsman ult activated. (I do believe this only works if you’re host though, lol)
Unless you’re playing on veteran, there’ll be plenty of assassins, hook rats, globadiers, warpfire throwers, leeches and blighstormers for you to shoot at, unless your party is exclusively WS, BH, RV and Huntsman.
Bit late in the response here but, while I would like the break points for pellets to stagger different enemies slightly reduced, I don’t think a shotgun should be able to stop a CW in their tracks. They’re too bulky. Should more apply to the armored ratties who shouldn’t be able to take it on the chin like a flame rat or a rattling gunner.
With regards to the use of shotguns on melee classes, they can work and they can work really well if you understand the role you play and practice a little ammo conservation. You are there to support your team with a weapon that can infinitely penetrate the vast majority of enemies in the game:
Get a horde in a line and it’s gone.
Leech sucking someone off during a horde? Buck shot.
Assassin flying across the map to deal some chip damage to the elf with 1hp? Mid-air buckshot.
Teammate on the ground about to eat one too many overheads from an elite while the rest of the group is slugging it out with a couple of hundred chaos worshipers? Buckshot to clear path and stagger elite to give you time to close for melee.
Your role is to immediately remove multiple close to medium threats or buy some time when an outright kill isnt possible. I’ve always meant to make a video of it because I feel shotguns don’t get the respect they deserve, but I have never made a recording of gameplay and have not the time to learn .
In conclusion, just let me require 1 less pellet to stagger enemies and I’m happy. I’m already happy actually but it would be a nice tiny buff.
I just wanna point out that you can basically hold a CW in place just by holding the beam staff on their head. Most ranged weapons can effectively stagger a CW by aiming for head shots. Shotguns don’t really have this luxury, so it seems fair that a full buckshot to the chest at close range should at least make them pause for a second with a light stagger animation, which I’m fairly sure they currently don’t do without maybe HS Ult.
A fair point but that’s their weak spot. I would prefer if shotguns also gained the ability to stagger armor consistently when hitting weak spots but just doesnt seem right to be to be able to tickle them (when they’re so thicc) by hitting them in the chest. I see where you’re coming from and shotguns could use a little more of a unique selling point but it’s just my personal preference .
I basically agree with you. Shotguns aren’t bad at all, and definitely have their uses. And those uses synchronise pretty well with Frontliners, in exactly the ways you describe.
My biggest problem, however, is that in a lot of situations the handgun, repeater handgun, or even crossbow are almost / pretty much just as good, and they come with the added benefit of ranged power and waaaaay better ammo sustain capacity of you have decent aim. (Speaking mainly from experience as IB, Merc, and FK on Cata here.)
For non-ranged classes shotguns (vs. other ranged weapons) trade - or at least should trade - ranged firepower and ammo sustain for up close reliability and dealing with “oh crap” situations like @InFro described so well. But right now that trade is a little unvaforable, as shotguns cannot fulfill their role in case of Packmaster and Flamer (and close Gunrats), who are some of the biggest close ranged “oh crap” moment causers in this game. (An unlucky storm or gas bomb can do this as well, but those are ranged threaths that shotguns should not be designed to solve.) Just because of those things, I find often that a Handgun in Cata or Legend is a way better choice than a shotgun on IB and FK, and they also come with a lot of other added benefits as well.
I don’t want the shotgun to be overpowered, or capable of blasting stuff on far to medium range, or better against hordes than it already is, or capable of shooting all the time on non-ammo sustain classes. But if I could reliably kill a Hookrat / Flamer / Gunner on close range (= about triple melee range maximum), shotguns would be able to actually fulfill their role and be good picks. That’s why I’d like a damage increase vs. Monster and Armor on close range. That’ll be a deserved buff, without making them overpowered on ranged classes at all.
I agree with all your points. Shotguns should be able to delete specials at close range, especially packmasters who still need a bonk to the head from a 2h hammer after being staggered by an entire shotgun blast to the chest.
I guess I focused on stagger because I have become accustomed to not being allowed to 1 shot a pack master since Fatshark lowered their damage to monsters due to the build where kruber could essentially 1 shot bosses with a blunderbuss. Being able to 1 shot them would be nice though .
Personally feel each ranged weapon a character has to offer should fulfill different roles with strengths and weaknesses.
Shotguns are very powerful against unarmoured targets and excel at clearing hordes.
Melee careers would be more wise taking a handgun as they already have capable horde clearing with melee. If anything I’d rather see AP nerfed on the shotguns in favour of more ammunition to expand upon their role as horde clearing ranged weapons.
Honestly I can’t understand because people focuses their messages on “shotguns aren’t trash, they still have some advantages”. I mean, my thread starts in this way:
Shotguns are already weapons strictly forced into close range (while other weapons can operate in almost every range)… they have some other bad cons, as poor armor and monster damage; few ammo.
I’m just asking to make them able to really fill their little niche (thanks the possibility to kill Packmasters in close range… also the capacity to kill Flamerat some meters farther than now would be appreciated… but step by step).
I think that shotguns aren’t meant to be hordes killers, but close range weapons. It’s pretty similar but still different. Let me explain.
See the difference with Drakegun. It’s a true hordes cleaner weapon. Pretty useless vs every special/elite but able to effectively deal with hordes.
Shotguns have a cone of pellets, right, but it’s pretty tight. If you have an open horde (and Fatshark nerfed hyperdensity, therefore we have more open hordes) shotgun’s capacity is reduced.
Shotguns have a low reload speed. This means that, in many situation, you can’t fire a second shot because enemies are already on you and you are forced to take your melee weapon.
Moreover I repeat my words:
From the other side, shotguns are stronger than Drakegun vs unarmored specials/elites and berserkers. They are more immediate too. For these reasons I think shotguns are meant as close range weapons, not hordes cleaners weapons. So we are saying to make them really close range weapons… thanks the capacity to kill Packmasters. Just this.