Shake up the Curse Resist and Swift Slaying meta

They’re both currently pretty much primary choices for vast majority of builds due to one reason or another.

Curse resist being compulsory on pub gaming (which is 90% full book runs) means that every character pretty much needs to have allocated slot for Curse Resist, ever since 2018. That is very stale piece of meta. Reworking how curse works would go a great way at making other options within that slot viable for use.

Swift Slaying pretty much is the go-to trait for vast majority of weapons because usually either there’s nothing more controllable/useful to pick or the weapons themselves are usually balanced by making them a bit slower people would like so combining both, SS is the primary choice to offset that.
Rather than cutting the corner and nerfing swift slaying (because i can easily guess FS would attempt to cap it just like other overly performing traits to proc once every X seconds) i would like to see more viable traits to increase variety and usefulness for individual weapons other than SS being optimal “there’s nothing better” choice for most cases.

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Sure, make suggestions: New melee traits - Make your suggestions

Personally, I would like to see something interesting instead of thinly veiled dps like poison, bleed, more power, more cleave, more attack speed.

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I honestly think Curse Resist shouldn’t even be a thing. Neither should Health, when I think about it. When would you ever not take Health? They’re both such non-choices, it just makes builds less interesting, since you already know what you’re going to take. The same applies to Swift Slaying.

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All books should be eliminated. They just slow down the game and less health and less healing kits is just a boring predicatble mechanic. Like OP says, on quicklplay games below cata difficulty full book runs and curse resistance are standard. So what’s the point? It’s so predictable and boring.

Additional rewards for books should be replaced with XP/loot bonuses for randomly generated deed-style modifiers or playing Twitch mode. Just like you get a Quickplay Bonus at the end of a game you should get a Twitchplay Bonus that reflects the twitch vote frequency and the spawn size. Alteratively, just let the host decide to take 1-3 additional deed-stlye modifiers at the start of the game to get a loot/XP bonus upon completion of the map. The modifiers should be randomly generated and only be revealed to the team once they have spawned into the map - so you can’t select the easiest ones. Obviously, deprivation (and back-to-basics) shouldn’t be included in the modifiers that are allowed because you have to build your character properly for this modifier; but, things like Vanguard or Harder, Better, Faster wouldbe fun, maybe some weave modifiers, and some additional modifiers like “an additional guaranteed monster spawn” or “patrols are more common”.

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When you have things as brilliant as Swift Slaying…
You have equally murky things like Heroic Intervention.

Imo: Parry, Opportunist are interesting.
If Off-Balance didn’t require blocking, but for example pushing (like the HM talent), it would be equally powerful to SS.

They nerfed Cooldown on Crit too hard because a few classes were abusing it (saltz, shade, Huntsman to name a few)
Since then, it’s become terribad, because the added DPS of SS also builds up ult cooldown…

Books should have random location and actually grant the player things like extra crafting material (if they ever come around to having a decent crafting and engaging crafting system).
Make it random, with difficulty affecting the grade of materials you obtain. I mean. So much stuff you could do!

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How about books are changed into something like this?

  • Instead of carrying a book to the end, we should destroy it. And there’s amount of mobs that guarding the books.

  • Or amount of mobs that just gathered somewhere, and we have to kill it, if we want a bonus.

  • Or like a loot-rat, but they are a patrol or something that carrying the loots around.
    I’d like to prefer more something like these than puzzling, or jumping to get reach somewhere hidden.

So, simply; I just want to more slaughter. Not the puzzles and jump platformers.

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You are absolutley right but i belive that removing it now would create quite a problem for balancing, making the game too much challenghing for those who are not absolute tryhards even on legend difficulty, being basicaly always at oneshot away from dying would lower the pickrate of base 100 HP in favour of more tankier ones (IB for example) for people that want to farm reds and the situation would be even worse, not only evrybaody with the same builds but even evrybody with the same heroes.

Culdn’t agree more especially fu**ing warcamp first grim. I’m here to smash ratmen heads not to play super mario.

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Of all the things to not bring from the first game, they brought back curse resist. All that has to be done is make carrying each grim take 20% health regardless (40%). That’s it. No more curse resist needed. I love cataclysm games because no one cares about books, and I can put what I want on my trinkets.

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I don’t have a problem with curse resist, because it isn’t always meta. For example, no one takes books on cata, so curse resist isn’t used on that difficulty. Some people may choose not to take books on difficult deeds on sub-cata difficulties as well.

I wouldn’t mind them buffing some traits to raise them up to the level of Swift Slaying though, as long as that doesn’t involve a nerf to SS itself.

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As far as Swift Slaying goes… I don’t think you really can “fix the meta” without going back and lightening up on the Nerfs on some of the others.

When they changed the WHC CD to a Minute 30 which was long overdue, I wanted to switch out with Resourceful Combatant which returns 5% cooldown on the Ult on a Crit, but only triggers every 4 seconds.

This was originally nerfed to account for an exploit called “Wigglemancer” an old term most wouldnt know about these days.

But I found that even though this COULD be beneficial, the return on it so miniscule at that point it was just a “not even under consideration” choice. (ergo was probably overnerfed)


Another example:
I WANTED to use or make use of Opportunist on Two Handed Sword early on. I was looking for a way to get Devastating Blow on it the way it worked in Verm 1.

This is back in the day before they changed to the new overhead strike.

But after using it, it was too passive, I never got much out of it, and when i really really needed to do it… the mob wasn’t attacking me.

So it was another one I tossed in the can.


Another one I tried…

Heroic Intervention: ie… you get 15 Temp Health when you push or rescue a teammate from an Immobilizer special…

One Problem… 15 temp health depending on your weapon and job… is like two or 3 weapon swings.

So I’m going… why exactly am I wasting time on this worthless weapon trait for something that only might happen ONCE during the entire game and return me a whopping 15 Temp Health…

Oooo Ahhh… Ohhhh.

That’s been my experience in TRYING to make ANY of these others work… but just basically not getting any return FOR using them.

So until these other Traits become at least marginally useful… Swift Slaying WILL be the choice no matter how much they Nerf it.

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i don’t hate the book mechanics at all, but i definitely agree that curse resistance is pretty much mandatory, and i think it’d make sense to remove it—reducing the impact of curses, so that it balances out and it’s like everyone has curse resistance by default.

health i see as a bit more contentious—it’s very strong, stronger than most of the other options you can get, but i’m pretty sure i’ve seen people run without it all the same! i think some more interesting alternatives than the 10% damage reduction might give us more variation—honestly, i mostly think the 10% is far too low to compare. if those modifiers were increased, or if some other alternatives were introduced to compete with block angle & cost, there’d definitely be a lot of variety in picks.

i’ve personally never liked the style of swift slaying, despite its on-paper power, so i’d welcome some good alternatives. heroic intervention i’ve actually seen trigger occasionally in normal melee combat–if that could be made a bit more reliable (maybe in exchange for a cooldown?), i’d absolutely love it. opportunist is situationally really powerful if you run a weapon with good staggering potential, and want to hit breakpoints against elites or berserkers. off-balance is handy in a handful of situations (say, ironbreaker taunting a monster)… but apart from opportunist, none of these are really good enough to take, in my experience.

eh removing curse resist will just result in the cata meta of Stam Regen and Crit Chance being the standard

properties in general probably need a looking into if Fatshark has a vision for property options being particularly interesting to toy around with

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Yeah as the above poster mentioned as fun as it is to toy with the idea of removing curse it is really just going to move the meta to next best thing. Health is a other one where it might be insanely obvious choice but personally i see it also being the only choice. Some tankier classes certainly don’t need the health but really there is nothing else apart from maybe block cost reduction.

Here’s my idea for a little, inoffensive nerf to swift slaying that would at least stop it stepping on RC’s toes quite so much. When SS procs the amount of cooldown you get per enemy hit with your melee weapon is reduced proportionally to the attack speed increase.

eg Say you have no other attack speed increases. When SS procs, your attack speed goes up to 1.2 X base speed, and your cooldown per hit becomes 1/1.2 X the normal amount.

Then reduce RC’s cooldown by 1 second, and see how things go from there. In theory it ought to make RC a viable option when running weapons that don’t really need SS to function well.

Curse resist I got no ideas, but I certainly don’t love the property as it is. Hey it’s still incomparable to the necklace DR properties, my word those are bad. Maybe just boil them all down to a straight 10% DR against everything. A property for defense/immunity to FF might also be neat somewhere but now I’m just rambling incoherently so I’ll stop here.

Here’s what I would do.

Swift Slaying: I don’t think it should be touched. It’s a good trait, let’s not nerf it because the other traits are near useless.

Curse Resist: Simple. Just remove the property from the game and make Grimoires reduce the same amount of HP they would if you had Curse Resist on.

Health: Again, simple. Remove the property from the game and give it’s effect to every character.

However, like Incandescent said, properties just need to be reworked entirely for this change to have a meaningful effect.

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Some builds really don’t require health. For example, I favor block cost reduction and push/block angle with my dual hammer Iron Breaker. With Natural Bond or Boon of Shallia, IB most certainly doesn’t need health.

In relation to curse resist, I can agree but I also don’t. I’m on the fence.

I don’t use curse resist with every build. Especially if I know I’m running completions with friends. I’ve found the movement speed and stamina recovery can be pivotal with some of my more tanky builds like Unchained or Footknight. Classes that have a large health pool and damage resistance can eat up that health reduction like it’s nothing. However, I do support the idea that it’s chosen far too often. Frankly, I don’t have a suggestion for how they could balance it or make it less appeasing. Maybe they could make the curse resistance timed (just a thought).

As for Swift Slaying, I must respectfully disagree. I favor some of the other weapon traits more heavily than SS. For example, I have found Off Balance to be invaluable with weapons like the Rapier and Bretonian Longsword. Opportunist has been a useful trait for me as well. When I play Iron Breaker with a shield (or with any shield focused weapon really), it’s useful for controlling hordes. As for Resourceful Combatant, I use it with my Mercenary build. It’s a great way to keep up damage resistance for the Mercenary. Of course, this isn’t to say I don’t use SS because I totally do. I just don’t agree that it’s overused the way Curse Resist is. I can agree it would be nice to see more traits introduced, perhaps.

The problem here is even as you say tanky careers can run without it without problems (if you are good enough), i often thought to myself why should i sacrifice so much health for 5% movement speed or 5% more crit? I mean yea these properties can be good but they aren’t worth losing so much hp.

Best example was a few days ago, i played with unchained and got pinned down by an assasin, since these randoms weren’t the best it took an enternety until they rescued me. So i lost like 80% health. Without curse resistense i would have been quite squishy until i could heal up. With curse ressistence i played on without worrying to much about my healthpoint because unchained can take a punch. Not blaming the randoms because they took so long. Could have lost my health to something other too, but that doesn’t change my argument

This was a moment where i was happy that i took curse ressistence even on a tanky class because you never know when something bad happens. The thing is simply evective hit points is better than everything else.

I feel like curse resist doesn’t get used a ton on higher difficulties anymore, I almost never run it now.

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The issue with curse resist is that its tied to an optional game mechanic, imo item propertie should all be tied to core mechanics.

Its annoying to have a build set up perfectly but to have to remember to swap out an item if you’re going to do Cata or deeds.

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