Scoreboard is making this community TOXIC

It does not matter how many of your own stats you see, if you do not have the stats of your teammates, to compare yourself to.

I simply spoke about damage, because it is a very easy to understand concept.
Apparently not for you.

Anyway.
Your suggestion is, to only compare yourself to the average (as relative value to the overall team), which does not mean all that much, if you do not have any information about outliers on either side.

Well, there could be a variety of reasons

  • The build isn’t as good as initially thought
  • The other player could have a better build
  • The other player may be more skilled

Or the opposite of those, when your numbers are favourable

Even across multiple missions, would you not see a high level of variability?

I’m not suggesting that you look at a single game in isolation.

Let me put it like this:

It is not that difficult to analyze a scoreboard and gain a bunch of valuable information from it.

But there are so many aspects that go into doing it, that it would be a massive effort to give a detailed explanation of it.

Alright, let me be more precise:
I can solo histg to some extent. I can hold carry the party if people aren’t performing. So I don’t care what you do :slight_smile:
Ultimately my own metric is how often I need to pick the poor sod up.

Other people might be trying hard to achieve a breakthrough, look at the scoreboard, see one dude not quite in the right place, and blow a fuse.

What I was saying came from trying to understand what would drive the toxicity up.

People talk about toxicity if they dont feel respected, analysed and evaluated and then berated because of the results.
You wouldn’t feel offended if someone analyse and evaluate you and the result is bad
even if it were true?
You haven’t asked for beeing evaluated and who has the right to analyse and evaluate you and make you look bad?

If you now answer you would be thankfull if somone out of the blue starts analysing and evaluating you in something you are bad in, i won’t believe you.

You would be thankfull if you asked for help to improve and ask for analysation and maybe also for evaluation, but not if you didn’t ask for it.

People analyse and evaluate others all day in many things and it mostly cause only the same reaction. You can read it in the forums. You have this and that i say you are xyz.
The Answer is you have this and that and you are XYZ :smiley:

This defines aggressive communication aka Toxicity perfectly.
Analyse, evaluate give advices make accusations, berating, belittle, make jokes of others…

Noob, Snowflake should do this and that… :upside_down_face:

and like someone said: The scoreboard may cause someone to feel the need to tell others “how good they are” /s

edit: Want an example? This is just to make an example, not what i want to answer you.

Here we go:

who cares?

you sound like someone who neeeds to bragg in a videgame forum about your achievements using derogative speech against others (poor sod).

If people don’t have to read chat when more experienced players are trying to pass on said experience.
Then they don’t have to read it when 1 big brain i*iot is having a moment.
Goes both ways.

You are using long sentences and I’m gonna answer one thing:
Beyond d*ck measuring contest, it’s a very valuable piece of feedback to tell if you have improved or not. If you are the only one who’s been hammered or not, e tc.

If you now answer you would be thankfull if somone out of the blue starts analysing and evaluating you in something you are bad in, i won’t believe you.

Some people can actually want to learn from other players. If someone tells me something that improves my experience, I’m thankful for it, and as a reaction, am more enclined to listen.

Too many players I will conceed forget they are dealing with human beings and do not know how to provide constructive and pertinent criticism.

I’m not here to brag.
Just to say scoreboards provide valuable feedback.

Ok they won’t change a failure into a success.
But they can give you an indication of your build’s performances.
More detailed stats would be nice. Like the %age of damage dealt between types.

Example: I’m fine tuning my build, switching between blessings and weapons.
The Psycharium isn’t worth a damn as it’s an enclosed testing space where a lot just isn’t factored in.
The two only things that let me know how it performs are:
Ingame feel, and end of game stat breakdowns.

If people want to brag about their 2m damage game with the S-tier build of the moment, good for them. I personally don’t care and encourage anyone else not to care either.

then you wanted that feedback indirectly, but there are others who dont want it and never asked for it.

i dont say other, i use it myself as stated in the thread in some posts above, some days ago.

I only wanted to explain what or where the Toxicity claims come from.
And both sides have valid points.

So we are both trying to explain where it comes from :slight_smile:

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maybe i have misunderstood your explanations as question where it comes from :smiley:
not my motherlanguage :see_no_evil:

I can give a rundown of checks I and most other long term players do unconsciously. None are foolproof mind you, but when they are all put together they will rarely paint an innaccurate assessment.

None involve scoreboard up until the end, or active attention other than number 2.

  1. True Level mod. The simplest one, but if you see a 600+ player it is extremely rare for them to be bad at the game. Inverse applies. Fresh 30? In aurics? Maybe its an alt, but next on the list.

  2. Loadout options. When you see a player rocking pure off meta weaponry they are either really good, and going for the added difficulty, or we make the correct assumption 99% of the time that they’re just bad.

This will be the most contentious item on this list I suspect.

You can now inspect blessings, and perks on the ready up screen. Those can also be very telling, but I always instantly ready up.

  1. In game now. How do they move? Slow weapon/low mobility on melee as an example. Do they use their blitz, or better mobility ranged weapon to sprint. Do they slide?

  2. First combat. Did they take chip damage? Did the struggle to 1 on 1 a single rager. Did they shoot the pox burster when someone was going to push it? Did they get grabbed? How was their general dodging, and positioning?

  3. Mid game. How many times have they gone down? Have they done any objectives? Do they always need help with everything? Do they actively steal resources?

  4. Score. Did they kill at least double digit elites and specials? Was their damage done ok? What about damage taken?

I can tell by step 3 most of the time. By step 4 I’ll almost always know by then. If it takes up to 6 they were probably ok at least.

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btw i agree with that too very much.
The Psykanium can provide numbers, but doesnt reflect if you were able to put that numbers on enemies in a real mission. So it’s also usefull to some degree, but like the scoreboard dont shows everything.

I dont top scores until, its also gear dependent, but i often save whole runs, not really shown on the scoreboard if i prevent a wipe or two but in my opinion i was maybe the MVP in the mission, because without me and my build the mission would have failed.

Funny thing is when i see a YT vid or streamer tabbing out to see scoreboard during game, its like: the hell are you looking at? If you are not orange you gonna kill faster? :smiley: Thats the problem and somebody already found a solution. There was a thread couple days ago: give us acces to scroeboard after match ends and upload it to one of the terminals you can go to and see it. No acces during game, only after, no way to rage about it during game and if you want to know how your build is performing? Great, go and see.

I like this idea a lot. On the topic of toxicity: to many people suck badly because they have no feedback. They think they are gods and got carried game after game after game. Smart ones when theyll see how bad they are doing will look for new build, search for videos to perform better, those crayon eaters will stay the same. I know this is game and should be fun but losing game after game is no fun to anyone. Feedback system is needed.

Ill even say that lack of the scoreboard is the reason for toxicity: bad players will think they are good and after losing 5 games in a row will lash out not getting that common denominator is them. Once we have something when they can in rage check who suck the most to blame and they will see that in all 5 games it was them? Well, it might get to them that its either diff level down or start to learn.

well the moment you join a match and therefor a team you are subject to evaluation and a demand to perform on a matching skill level.

who cares if someone gets “offended”. you push yourself into the other ones presence, sure as hell they’ll demand equal contribution.

and if facts back up the reality that certain people are bad, why should others have to deal with the one putting his head in the sand in denial?

real life examples would simply have you put out the door, if people are nice, a closed window if they aint :smile:

like it or not, you get judged daily in every aspect of your interaction with society. people just went soft over the last 2 decades or so.

most valuable lessons i had in life i got taught unasked and it literally saved my butt.

sure this here environment is “just a game” but a passtime people invest their energy into so they have every right to opt out “dead weight” scenarios.

this whole mess wouldnt even exist if people accepted their level of expertise and just stepped down a notch instead of insisting to partake in situations they are not cut out for.

i aint got beef with you personally, just stating how infuriating it can be having experiences like those stated above in auric maelstrom wasting an otherwise promising run.

if only there was a more selective match making, lots of bad blood could be avoided.

but for the record, i havent felt the need to mention scores unless the cretin in question went flapping his gums, everyone else just gets a frown and i move on.

ps: the traffic example had me chuckle, for i scream bloody murder every time i got a damn underperformer moving at a snails pace in front of me going 30 slower than he could be moving.
if only i could shake off 3stars that easy in real life :smile:

usually its those aholes though that accelerate the second you pass them, trying to deny you the maneuver. almost like they dont like being put in their place, who would have thought :smile:

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Don’t have the scoreboard mod and I’ve never seen this happen.

Maybe it’s like, a skill issue or something?

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you’re not wrong. people using the scoreboard tend to be the “low-skill, high-importance” players that think chasing green circles means they’re doing better who don’t grasp that the main skill you need is understanding positioning to reduce risk to the team as a whole.

It’s a mix of people trolling and other people overreacting and emotion dumping. A lot of people don’t know how to correctly read a room and assume their thoughts are the same or analogous to people they don’t know.

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Something came to me after reading these last 70 or so comments of a topic that was really done 6 months ago :wink: …

Maybe what would help is some kind of ELO ranking. It’s not visible to the player base, it just sits in the matchmaker. e.g. Scenario:

So; if you’re currently at “roughly” T4 level:

  • If you win in a high level game compared to your current rank, e.g. T5+ - you get more ELO points.
  • Win at a slightly lower level, e.g. T4 = gain fewer points.
  • If you keep playing & winning at levels of your level or below (T4 and below), at some point you get next to no additional points at all, so you plateau there.

If you lose, you don’t get any points if it was well above your level, OR you lose a few points if you were in a level very slightly above, at, or below, your ability.

  • Lose a low T3 level and you lose quite a lot of points.
  • Lose in a T4 and you don’t lose many at all.
  • Lose in a T5 and maybe only lose a few.

That way eventually we should see it becomes less about arguing which metrics on a dashboard are the most important, and actually whether on the whole you win matches or lose them based on your average play.

All invisible btw to us. Then the matchmaker can try throwing people of roughly the same levels together, with the occasional stretch or carry match. And if you want to go in well above your level, then you can, but you’re going to have team mates doing the same. And if you’re going in to levels below where you are, you’re not going to be carrying a load of newbies who don’t get chance to fire.

Maybe it does this. I suspect not though. But if FS had, I sure as hell would implement it and not tell anyone it’s in there as otherwise you’d get Rocket League levels of rage! Plus, you wouldn’t want players deliberately Alt-F4 ing a game.

(edited: formatting)

i may get this wrong, but someone could be lucky and got carried most of the time in T5, so he wins and gets higher ELO and stays in T5 with competent players.

playerbase is small like 15k to 20k iirc divided into different timezones so we maybe would wait long time to find a team what is something Developers hardly try to avoid, you should be able to constantly and quickly find a mission/ team 24/7, so the ELO is not completely bad, like also someone suggested a rush queue for people who like to rush thorugh level, but i doubt it will work with this small playerbase.

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You won’t get to play with high skill rank 5 players, in theory, until you’re at that level too. Occasionally you will with a stretch level.

Also - you can be lucky, you’re right. But only for so long. At some point you’re not going to have that carry and start losing points, which takes those really good players out of your games.

It’s pretty much how ELO works in Rocket League (I believe).

*edit - afterthought.
I suspect that this data is already accrued by FS, so they could in theory switch it on now.

*2nd edit - sorry! - low playerbase numbers:
You don’t necessarily need a lot of players to make this system work. You simply apply it and it does the best it can. Within a population of 200 people queueing for T5 you can still match make.

Use scoreboard to get stats… not the score.
The score means nothing, everything is messed in the calculation.

Tbh, I see people with low damages output, but this doesn’t mean they are bad. The damages depend of your template, and when I use something to test, sometimes I can get a really low damages output. Same with the teammates. Sometimes you will encounter someone with a gun that plays in same niche of your weapon but better… then you will be somewhat useless for your team (and you will record low damages output).

I use the scoreboard mainly to estimate if a template is bad, good or OP. As I know the average damages I do in an Auric, I can compare. 500-600k average. 700k very good. 900-1m seems a little too good but FS doesn’t care