Oh, and I meant to put this in my last post - a video about Handmaiden’s Dash.
Unchained: used to be the most odd char ingame, because she need to manage her heat and health at the same time, heat have higher priority however which is weird. overheat should damage the sienna herself badly not instant knock down.
Foot Knight: his 30% damage resistance and large health pool is the reason existence. might get some melee bonus from his talents and default abilities, but if only then there will be no reason to play mercenary over the foot knight. temporary health is great - and i know that - but consider how paper like is sell sword are.
Handmaiden: seem to be the most defensive hero. but in reality, she aint got nothing - i agree. stamina cost? if she can block monster’s heavy chop over the top, ignore out of stamina stagger by elites might be a little better. her only usage is the spear with 360 angle defense which isnt worth at all - if theres a situation you’re surrounded by a horde alone, its unlikely to see other teammates are still alive. she could have larger health pool and some damage resistance. dodge distance also not worth at all, because every hero can dodge most attacks. the only reason they cant is because of a wall or enemies to where they dodge which handmaiden herself cant even evade after all. current handmaiden is only for highly skilled players with tons of useless quirks. we’ve no problem with default dodge distance arent we? id say maiden is elf version of good old whc.
Iron Breaker: seinna v2.0 + foot knight v2.0. Gromril Armour shouldnt exist nor his flame weapons.
I enjoy playing FK and IB, never feel that I don’t contribute. FK has strong offensive potential with proper gear and talents and IB has the luxury of giving zero care about how well his melee performs against hordes and his melee and ranged synergize well (Pick and cannon are one of my favourite setups in the whole game. Pick just destroys SV and CW, the latter potentially with a single charged heavy headshot). It’s true that drakefire weapons are kinda mandatory on him, but this partly owed to the fact that the other talent choices on same tier are more or less garbage. The tanks are good for what they are supposed to do in my book.
I believe that tanks have a role in the general for the community. They offer a more forgiving experience when new players are learning basic mechanics and an anchor for experienced players to start advancing to harder difficulties.
I believe the original intent of the OP was not to say that tanks are not viable, just that they would like to see them perform on a level that is similar to the “meta” character play styles and equipment load outs. However, we can’t make damage output be the only factor for a decently performing class. That being said, I think a tank class still fits in the Vermintide experience but knocking over chaff indefinably should not be the only reward for playing that style. I think that other support aspects need to be incorporated into the role. For example, any AI that is knocked over or stunned by Krubers knightly charge applies the WHC’s damage buff against the target. A general aggro function applied to tanks is another example. (note, I’m not saying these are great or balanced suggestions, just a theme that could be applied) In the case of needing more damage, tanks typically are stronger then the average joe so why not apply that concept for a stronger heavy attack on two-handed weapons and/or more cleave.
sounds like talent reworks are in progress so that might in general help our tanky classes
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It all comes down to “dodge is all the defense you’ll ever need, why have hitpoints or be good at blocking”.
The solution, to me, is not to buff tanks.
That said, some could certainly be nerfed.
Zealot made more sense with the buff based on his current hitpoints, instead of his green health - though that never really worked properly.
Unchained was great fun when heat management was an actual challenge. A bit too good, she is now.
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I’m gonna quote myself about the tanks in VT:
TLDR: This game doesn’t need tanks/healers per se, and the question is what’s gonna happen with the archetypes and how important role will they have in the future.
The concept of this game is designed around killing as much enemies as possible in order to progress through the level and to heal yourself. There is no real tanking as we are used to that expression from MMORPGs. Sure, from time to time we do “tank” a patrol or a boss, but even that can be “tanked” with dodges and actives.
The way I see it, there’s nothing FS could do to make tanking more important/fun without changing the core of the game completely. But the question is, do we want that from Vermintide?
I personally would like to have deeper and more important archetypes, that would make this game and tank classes more interesting and more fun.
Nope, my issue is that simply the classes that stand out most for needing adjustments are all tankier careers, they are either too strong, underwhelming, or rely on a very singular load-out to perform now. The game has gotten easier and we have had a lot of power creep, it just feels very imbalanced.
HM is my favourite class, and she can pump out amazing damage. Hagbane on her is godly for boss killing. She’s currently in a good spot in my opinion.
FK and IB could use a rework. I think UC needs a few tweeks and Zealot needs a slight nerf. As he’s pretty much god mode right now with insane damage.
Yeah recent changes really have not been favorable to classes like footknight. I guess good way to start with him would be simply to rework how his aura works or fully change it into something else because right now it might as well be 1 useless talent and skill you barely get anything out of.
Also i really hate how powerful dodging seems to be right now, you can pretty much avoid any awful situation if you are a dodgin class and you can see this imminently when you go from something like slayer to ironbreaker or footknight. You can be way more aggressive with the former which already cuts into this “tanking” is useless feeling when you cannot get the same offensive potential.
Is it? I thought the concept of the game was ‘visceral melee action’. To me, that means blood and guts and actually fighting things. Not evading every incoming hit and oneshotting everything instantly and moving on. I play this game because I enjoy every fight, not to get to the end of the run. The irony is that in my opinion these ‘tank’ classes that are supposedly weak and boring and have lower mobility and damage do ‘fighting’ better than anyone else.
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Slight? Zealot was faceroll mode even before AnF and before the 20 minute dodge window and before the temp health changes. AnF being the most OP melee weapon in the game is just the icing on the cake.
He needs to have temp health affect his damage stacks again.
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But they literally don’t, slayer with dual axes or shade with dual daggers have basically 0 cleave and mulch everything faster than FK with any weapon set up can for example.
I agree with you, I don’t like speedruns and I really love to “savour” this game in its entirety: The fights, the maps, the atmosphere. Many people started playing this game because they’ve played L4D or they just like playing coop games. I started playing VT1 because I’m a big Warhammer fan.
But, intentionally or not, the gameplay focus (in most cases) is on speed.
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I say slight nerf, because in the past Fatshark tend to be very heavy handed with the nerf hammer…
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I’d rather they find a different solution, because it makes the carreer alot less reliable in what it does. I think the 50% damage reduction thing needs to go on zealot, but temp health not affecting his abilities is a good thing.
Come to think of it, look at how other talents fare that need you to be under a certain amount of health and curse and temp health not having effect on that. They are useless.
Yo leave Zealot alone, instead of wanting him to get nerfed better make sure yo fav Hero to get buffed, can’t dig why people complain 'bout heroes they don’t play or its even more ridiculous if you play him and want him to get nerfed , get some help
lol, yeah fair call.
I’m talking fighting, not straight up killing. I don’t want to just go on autopilot and spam lights with the occasional pushstab like you can with DA slayer or DD shade while being literally unhittable because I’m constantly side dodging. That might be fun for some people, but not me.
He’s broken af bro. Reliably solos entire maps at legend without ever getting a sniff of trouble.
The damage buff is massive and it should have an equally massive downside to balance it out. Consider also that he’s got a career perk that literally stops him from dying. That exists because he’s supposed to be on the edge of death if you want to get that massive damage buff. There should be a choice to make: Massive damage or massive survivability. With temp health not affecting his stacks, he has both, and that’s a big part of why he’s as broken as he is.
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And that mentality of “don’t nerf A, buff everything but A” has lead many a game down the drain, and it has led to the current situation where the game is easier than before and a buffed mechanic (dodge) trivializes all other mechanics that should be doing the same job.
Besides, how would that even make sense?
People say that a class kills to fast, and they prefer combat to last a few seconds so that irks them, and your answer is to buff other classes, too? How will that slow down gameplay any?
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I do play zealot lol… I have the 100 clear hat from Legend. He is a god currently. Soon as the match starts, I run ahead and get hit to 30hp. At which point you pop ULT and stack temp HP. His ULT with block push attack on A&F into a horde gives an insane amount of temp HP, the same as Mercs shout. Meanwhile, you’re hitting 30% more damage.
As was stated above, he was really strong even before the buffs. I use to use rapier with a trinket I rolled for 18.8% curse resistance so I would always have 3 stacks with 2 grims. This allowed me to slaughter hordes and charged attacks could 1 shot most mobs. Now since temp HP stacks his passives. You can just run full curse resistance red item and dominate.
It’s really hard for any other classes to out damage him. His BoP with 30% damage from stacks and 20% from bomb with concoction trait on potion let’s him chunk 50% of a bosses HP. In less than 4 seconds.
Ya Want everything to get nerfed to a point where people will stop enjoying this game and the game loses it’s player base , don’t nerf stuff that people enjoy, maybe ask the devs to add more heroes so you can focus on something else then complaining