# Remove instances of Beastmen roamers or ambient spawns mixing in with the other factions’ roamers/spawns **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Feedback\ **Created:** [December 1, 2020, 9:16am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/remove-instances-of-beastmen-roamers-or-ambient-spawns-mixing-in-with-the-other-factions-roamers-spawns/42578 "2020-12-01T09:16:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![hollerbach](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/hollerbach/32/19870_2.png) [@hollerbach](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/hollerbach)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 9:16am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/remove-instances-of-beastmen-roamers-or-ambient-spawns-mixing-in-with-the-other-factions-roamers-spawns/42578/1 "2020-12-01T09:16:18Z")
In Athel Yenlui with the Winds of Magic DLC, I noticed that Beastmen roamers or ambient spawns will spawn in close proximity with Chaos Northmen or Skaven roamers/spawns (very noticeable in the part just after the initial drop-down). In [Patch 3.0 (Grail Knight update)](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/season-3-patch-3-0-0-2-the-grail-knight-now-live/39757/1), many levels, including Athel Yenlui had either reduced faction mixing or removed mixed faction zones, but there is still some very noticeable faction mixing in Athel Yenlui. EDIT: I’ve also noticed Skaven-Beastmen roamers/ambient spawns mixing in the first part of Festering Ground (the bandit hideout area). This is a bit immersion-breaking as Beastmen were never part of the Skaven and Chaos Northmen pact (i.e., Beastmen are not “Pactsworn”), and as shown in Dark Omens (dead rat ogre\*), they do not tolerate the presence of other factions’ units in their vicinity. \* Characters will remark about this. E.g., Bardin: “Killing a rakogri doesn’t mean that whatever did it is friendly.” Also, while Dark Omens also has Skaven roamers/zones, they are not mixed in with the Beastmen roamers/zones. A good example is the dead rat ogre part. Prior to the dead rat ogre is a Skaven zone - the Skaven roamers there do not hang around with Beastmen. And after the dead rat ogre, is a Beastmen zone, which does not have Skaven roamers. It seems that Dark Omens is the only map that has no instances of Beastmen and other factions mixing (in terms of roamers or ambient spawns). It has distinct zones for each faction. Reducing or removing faction mixing would be in line with the changes in the [Grail Knight patch](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/season-3-patch-3-0-0-2-the-grail-knight-now-live/39757/1): > - Athel Yenlui: Reduced faction mixing. > > - Convocation of Decay: Made sure there are no Beastmen and no zones with a mix of Skaven and Chaos. > > - Empire in Flames: Reduced amount of mixed roamer factions. > - Fort Brusslesprouts: Reduced mixing of roamer factions. > - Halescourge: Reduced mixing of roamer factions. > - Hunger in the Dark: Reduced mixing of roamer factions. > > - Righteous Stand: Removed Beastmen and reduced mixed Skaven and Chaos factions. > Skittergate: Reduced roamer faction mixing > - Screaming Bell: Made sure there are no Beastmen and no zones with a mix of Skaven and Chaos. > - Skittergate: Reduced roamer faction mixing ---
**Author:** ![semn007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f4b2a3/32.png) [@semn007](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/semn007)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 2:23pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/remove-instances-of-beastmen-roamers-or-ambient-spawns-mixing-in-with-the-other-factions-roamers-spawns/42578/2 "2020-12-01T14:23:11Z")
Oh man, wouldn’t it be awesome if they actually fought? ---
**Author:** ![Ashreon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac8455/32.png) [@Ashreon](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Ashreon)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/remove-instances-of-beastmen-roamers-or-ambient-spawns-mixing-in-with-the-other-factions-roamers-spawns/42578/3 "2020-12-03T14:58:56Z")
First of, Beastmen are regulars in any old forest. That includes Athel Loren, Athel Yenlui and others. It makes sense from a lore perspective. Secondly, beastmen don’t give a royal \*\*\*\* about other races, what they care about is smashing things and a strong leader - if you can provide both to them they’ll follow you. Even if you’re a Skaven. Third of all, beastmen are fervent chaos worshippers - where Chaos is, you’re bound to find Beastmen as well. A dead rat ogre just means that it was weak. Beastmen pray on weakness. In fact they revel in murdering weak or foolish beings. If you find it immersion breaking, you really need to read up on lore, there’s nothing immersion breaking about it. I get that you probably just don’t like beastmen (who does), but then say that. ---
**Author:** ![doom\_hamster](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/doom_hamster/32/55388_2.png) [@doom\_hamster](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/doom_hamster)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/remove-instances-of-beastmen-roamers-or-ambient-spawns-mixing-in-with-the-other-factions-roamers-spawns/42578/4 "2020-12-03T16:27:21Z")
> [@Ashreon](#): > > Secondly, beastmen don’t give a royal \*\*\*\* about other races, what they care about is smashing things and a strong leader - if you can provide both to them they’ll follow you. Even if you’re a Skaven. > > If you find it immersion breaking, you really need to read up on lore, there’s nothing immersion breaking about it. do you have an example where skaven was a leader for beastmen? From my knowledge, the beastmen consider themselves as most true chaos worshippers, and generally look down upon chaos humans, unless that human got lots of gifts/approval from the gods. Skavens have a different god, the horned rat, so beastmen won’t see any point in cooperating with them, they’ll just bash their skulls in. More so, they have different castes, like gors and ungors (not proper gors, they have more human bodies, small or no horns), what mutations you’re born with have a meaning to them, for example a beastman with bovine head and two horns, and without much else - considered most proper beastman, that stuff affects the standing in their society. I find it hard to believe that beastmen would pick a ratman as their leader. ---
**Author:** ![hollerbach](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/hollerbach/32/19870_2.png) [@hollerbach](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/hollerbach)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 6:48pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/remove-instances-of-beastmen-roamers-or-ambient-spawns-mixing-in-with-the-other-factions-roamers-spawns/42578/5 "2020-12-03T18:48:29Z")
> [@Ashreon](#): > > First of, Beastmen are regulars in any old forest. That includes Athel Loren, Athel Yenlui and others. It makes sense from a lore perspective… > > Third of all, beastmen are fervent chaos worshippers - where Chaos is, you’re bound to find Beastmen as well. I’m not sure why you mentioned those. My feedback was about removing instances of Beastmen roamers _mixing_ in with the other factions’ roamers. It was _not_ about removing Beastmen in Athel Yenlui. > [@Ashreon](#): > > Secondly, beastmen don’t give a royal \*\*\*\* about other races, what they care about is smashing things and a strong leader - if you can provide both to them they’ll follow you. Even if you’re a Skaven. “No Gor, or horned Beastman, would consent to being ruled by an Ungor or Bray, no matter how skilled or powerful the lesser Beastman might be. In any case, such a situation never occurs in practice; Ungors and Brays are simply weaker and less physically imposing than Gors.” - [Beastmen | Warhammer Wiki | Fandom](https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Beastmen) I highly doubt Beastmen will follow horn-less and less physically imposing humans and ratmen. > [@Ashreon](#): > > A dead rat ogre just means that it was weak. Beastmen pray on weakness. In fact they revel in murdering weak or foolish beings. That supports my argument to not mix Beastmen roamers with the other factions’ roamers. You know what’s weaker than a rat ogre? Marauders and clanrats. Why would a beastman hang around weak, puny humans and ratmen, unless it’s to kill them? > [@Ashreon](#): > > If you find it immersion breaking, you really need to read up on lore, there’s nothing immersion-breaking about it. Vermintide lore says Beastmen were never part of the “Pactsworn.” (Are Beastmen even capable of signing pacts?) Ergo, it is immersion breaking for them to be hanging around in close proximity with the Chaos Northmen and Skaven (the two factions who have signed the pact). There should be no zones with a mix of Beastmen and the other factions, like in Dark Omens. In Dark Omens, the Skaven roamers don’t spawn in close proximity to the Beastmen roamers. Each faction has its own zone. Fatshark reduced faction mixing in Athel Yenlui and many other maps in the Grail Knight update, but I’m still seeing mixed faction roamers in Athel Yenlui, hence this feedback post. ---
**Author:** ![NewNoise10](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/newnoise10/32/113993_2.png) [@NewNoise10](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/NewNoise10)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/remove-instances-of-beastmen-roamers-or-ambient-spawns-mixing-in-with-the-other-factions-roamers-spawns/42578/6 "2020-12-03T21:37:45Z")
> [@Ashreon](#): > > Secondly, beastmen don’t give a royal \*\*\*\* about other races, what they care about is smashing things and a strong leader - if you can provide both to them they’ll follow you. Even if you’re a Skaven. The Beastmen aren’t Orks, they do have an agenda that goes beyond “smashing things” that mantle is held by the Greenskins, the Beastmen want to destroy civilization and spread chaos corruption, and have tried to destroy Athel Loren on numerous occasions under the command of Morghur the corrupter. I have never heard of a “Skaven” Chieftain, or any other race besides a Beastman as Chieftain, they are not known to have any tolerance to any of the other races. ---
**Author:** ![Ashreon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac8455/32.png) [@Ashreon](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Ashreon)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 1:26am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/remove-instances-of-beastmen-roamers-or-ambient-spawns-mixing-in-with-the-other-factions-roamers-spawns/42578/7 "2020-12-07T01:26:53Z")
Read up on lore then, you will see that Beastmen follow the strong, always have and always will hench why so few Beastmen Tribes are lead by Shamans (not impossible, but not very likely either). They have on multiple occasions followed Chaos. In fact they regularly team up with Chaos. Chaos is the main culprit of Vermintide, the intro makes that very clear. Skaven be dead meat if they don’t get the Skittergate up and running proper. How does destroy civilization not translate in to smashing things? It’s at the core of what they want to do. Tear down civilization and murder the weak so they once more are the rulers. ---
**Author:** ![NewNoise10](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/newnoise10/32/113993_2.png) [@NewNoise10](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/NewNoise10)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 1:31am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/remove-instances-of-beastmen-roamers-or-ambient-spawns-mixing-in-with-the-other-factions-roamers-spawns/42578/8 "2020-12-07T01:31:36Z")
> [@Ashreon](#): > > They have on multiple occasions followed Chaos. In fact they regularly team up with Chaos. Chaos is the main culprit of Vermintide, That would be because the beastman are spawned from chaos, they’re from human descent but were twisted by chaos corruption into what they’re known as today, so when chaos calls they answer, as they are agents of chaos. Just like how the tribes of Norsca answer to the god’s of chaos. Usually the chaos gods feud with each other, but the times when they’re united, pretty much everything under the influence of chaos corruption answers to their will. It’s true they follow the strongest, that has always been among their own ranks, never outside it. You’d never see a Skaven lead a beastman horde. They’d be slaughtered. > [@Ashreon](#): > > How does destroy civilization not translate in to smashing things? It’s at the core of what they want to do. Tear down civilization and murder the weak so they once more are the rulers. That’s an agenda that goes beyond “smashing things” that is an end goal to impose darwins law on the world, which is motivated by their own philosophy, if you can call it that. The Orcs are the true champions of smashing things, they don’t seek to bring an end to civilization as we know it, they just want a good slogging and go wherever the fightin’ is to be had. That’s what makes Grimgor one of the best Orcs, no one loved a good fight more than he did. ---
**Author:** ![hollerbach](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/hollerbach/32/19870_2.png) [@hollerbach](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/hollerbach)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 5:42am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/remove-instances-of-beastmen-roamers-or-ambient-spawns-mixing-in-with-the-other-factions-roamers-spawns/42578/9 "2020-12-07T05:42:03Z")
> [@semn007](#): > > Oh man, wouldn’t it be awesome if they actually fought? It would be cool if Fatshark implemented [Monster infighting.](https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/Monster_infighting) > **[Monster infighting](https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/Monster_infighting)** > > Monster infighting is a phenomenon in the Doom games, Heretic, and Hexen, where enemy monsters will deliberately attack each other instead of the player. Monster infighting results when one monster ends up attacking another monster, usually through... ---
**Author:** ![NewNoise10](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/newnoise10/32/113993_2.png) [@NewNoise10](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/NewNoise10)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 11:43am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/remove-instances-of-beastmen-roamers-or-ambient-spawns-mixing-in-with-the-other-factions-roamers-spawns/42578/10 "2020-12-07T11:43:51Z")
> [@hollerbach](#): > > It would be cool if Fatshark implemented [Monster infighting.](https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/Monster_infighting) It is canonically correct too, at least among chaos. ---
**Author:** ![Eder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a698b9/32.png) [@Eder](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Eder)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/remove-instances-of-beastmen-roamers-or-ambient-spawns-mixing-in-with-the-other-factions-roamers-spawns/42578/11 "2020-12-07T14:24:39Z")
yes it would. ---
**Author:** ![OrsonMaxwell](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/orsonmaxwell/32/16570_2.png) [@OrsonMaxwell](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/OrsonMaxwell)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 5:27pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/remove-instances-of-beastmen-roamers-or-ambient-spawns-mixing-in-with-the-other-factions-roamers-spawns/42578/12 "2020-12-07T17:27:40Z")
One of the best things about Doom. However, imagine what rigs must we run in order have VT2 pathing not glitch out then XD ---
**Author:** ![semn007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f4b2a3/32.png) [@semn007](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/semn007)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2020, 6:17am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/remove-instances-of-beastmen-roamers-or-ambient-spawns-mixing-in-with-the-other-factions-roamers-spawns/42578/13 "2020-12-09T06:17:38Z")
> [@hollerbach](#): > > Are Beastmen even capable of signing pacts? Gor 1: “You, Zot, hwhat be dat paper thing?” Gor 2_Bashes the skull of the rat messenger_: “???” > [@Ashreon](#): > > destroy civilization Gor 1: “You, Zot, whow can we be smash dat civilithingy?” Gor 2 _becomes rasta_: “Jaahhh” > [@OrsonMaxwell](#): > > what rigs must we run I’m a strong believer that V2 is really poorly optimised game. A dozen map and models weighs up to 100 Gb and requires helluva rig to run 60+fps 1440p… ---
**Author:** ![OrsonMaxwell](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/orsonmaxwell/32/16570_2.png) [@OrsonMaxwell](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/OrsonMaxwell)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2020, 6:44am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/remove-instances-of-beastmen-roamers-or-ambient-spawns-mixing-in-with-the-other-factions-roamers-spawns/42578/14 "2020-12-09T06:44:50Z")
> [@semn007](#): > > I’m a strong believer that V2 is really poorly optimised game. A dozen map and models weighs up to 100 Gb and requires helluva rig to run 60+fps 1440p… Well, at least they didn’t have to license an engine.