Remove 50% damage reduce talent

Being too op all along, feels like vet even on legend. And also lower ironbreaker 30% resistance to 15% as he already have A.T. Field every 10 seconds.

I think they are very nice when you feel like playing vanguard, harder better faster stronger, instadeath. They are handy for those times, but also when you get pub teams made of glass cannons. Sure they are really tanky, but it’s not like everybody’s playing them.

Also, make IB less tanky and it gets quite useless, it has virtually no utility (FK charge or aura) aside from his tankiness and the aggro ulti

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Each hit inflicts to heroes/heroines without resistance are deadly fatal thus this single talent is truly beyond broken.

On the othet word, overpowered.

Reduction is too good, almost feels like plsying vet. As the game melee focused it is clear how broken they are.

I dont think so, consider how powerful his drake fire are and like i mentioned he have an A.T. field like buff which is pretty good already.

I wouldn’t put it in quite as extreme terms as “feel like Veteran, even in Legend” but I agree that the Talent is overly powerful on both Careers that have it. It’s not the only thing that makes Zealot overly strong or that allows Slayer to keep berserking and taking hits despite his low Health, but it’s certainly a factor in both, and so strong that it’s rarely worth it to even consider the other options.

Zealot spends most of his time on less than 50% Health (and most actively seek that out), so Suppress Pain is active practically all the time. But because nearly everything on Legend does enough damage to get reduced by Flagellant, that one’s also active most of the time - and actually helps more, particularly against the big hits. So Suppress Pain ends up irrelevant. No Surrender! is still a valid option, but Zealot gains so much offensive strength from other sources that it ends up overkill most of the time anyway. Thus, one practical option to choose.

For Slayer, Oblivious to Pain is probably his primary choice of survivability, as he lacks a lot of other choices that enhance it. This again isn’t helped by the fact that the other two choices are underwhelming. “Last man standing” abilities in general are way too rarely useful to be worth it (unless you’re doing true solo, and that’s a different thing altogether), and added damage after crits have so many ifs that it’s really not worth it either. But even if these options were better, Oblivious to Pain would likely be nearly always the choice, as it’s so important for a Slayer’s continuous survival.

As for Ironbreaker… Well, withstanding a lot of damage is his shtick, and the one thing he does extremely well. His resistance to damage might go a bit overboard overall, but I think that’s more a problem of the Career’s design than any of his abilities that accomplish it, even taken together. And he’s still vulnerable enough; even an Ironbreaker will go down if not played sensibly, even if it will take triple the time of the others. I wouldn’t really mind much if his resistances were toned down a bit, but I don’t think it’s actually necessary either.

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IB has the same damage resistance as the FK if he takes the lvl 15 talent. The difference being that the FK spreads that Damage Resistance to the team as well.

The IB is in a decent place… I would just increase the cool down of Gromil Armour to 30 seconds and delete the Drake Gun. After that, he would be fine. P

I would make IB wear only Drakefire weapons that would be great :slight_smile:

Im not sure why u all want to nerv tanky classes this is coop and not Pvp if u want them to be less tanky dont use the tanky Talents go more supportive and role youre Equip more sup and less tanky. U dont need to use drake fire Guns if u dont like them take a crossbow or grudge…
The IB is suposed to be super tanky if u read the lore of warhammer or look AT the tabletop or pnp u might notice that the IB is one of tankyst things in warhammer universe so why should he be squishy?

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Because he is nearly as op as elf dodges!

Both of those talents (zealot & slayer) play into the idea of the character. Favoring killing over caring about themselves and damage they take. As far as that is concerned I like them.

An alternative option for both could be to remove the damage reduction, but add a greater temp health gain talent (like double?). That would fit better with being fueled by smiting foes than simply taking less damage.

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Slayer and Zealot:
Are tanks for no reason, they are berserkers. So talent’s that would make them ignore the effect of being hit like zealot’s uninterruptible attacks are the way to go.
In case they need to be tankier I think that the temp hp combat gen we have would be the way to go making them better at it. I’m a general critic of temp hp combat gen but on these two careers it really fits as they are driven by madness, rage and guilt.

Iron breaker:
Should be tanky but his dmg and mobility are the things to tweak.
Drake gun specifically:
Currently hordes are hp packs. This needs to be fixed first.
Then it will be considered a good and strong choice. Too strong in my opinion and it would need to be nerfed. I guess in the elite department or in the heat management.

… so what you’re saying is that getting basically 50% damage reduction is actually more powerful than getting a moderate burst of speed when all your comrades are dead???

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This is basically the main issue with Slayer. With Oblivious to Pain, he is absoltuely god-tier, but try playing Slayer without it (interestingly, even though I see so many people complaining about dodging being too ez and Legend being too ez, I have yet to come across a Slayer who doesn’t run Oblivious, even though at least the critical hit talent is actually quite decent). I have yet to discover the true reasoning behind Slayer’s design choices, Zealot and Slayer being almost literal carbon copies of the same concept, but with Zealot getting literally 50% more health than Slayer, a death cheating ability and temp health out the wazoo and still having access to ranged weapons. Don’t get me wrong, I love Slayer, but there is very little reason why Mr. Stout-Fellow-Ever-Enduring-Dwarf Bardin has only 100 base health as Slayer. I am all in favour of both Zealot and Slayer getting their DR talents revoked, but Zealot has a large health pool to compensate. Slayer has not, or at least he has to spend a talent on it to get what Zealot has from the get-go (and Slayer needs the necklace for that). Slayer pretty much needs health and mobility to compensate for the lack of ranged weaponry, so if Oblivious goes, he should be upped to 125 health and get dodge-distance bonus and the level 25 movement bonus as part of his kit maybe. (I am still in favour of some kind of death-blow ability, as in: When you get downed/die, you have 10 seconds of invulnerability where you deal double damage, but then you get downed, something like that).

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It’s not that serious… remove zealot damage stacks on temp hp and he’s suddenly balanced again. He’s still a lot more tanky than other classes, but that would knock him down to where he should be.

The slayer is fine, he can pump out a ton of damage, and with dual hammers, he actually gets temp HP better than the Zealot. I prefer the 20% dodge talent and the reduce damage talent works well with his lower HP and front line berserker role. I’d say he’s actually in a decent place. He can compete with shade and Kruber Ex Sword Merc.

Temp HP comes down to your play style, but I always prefer the temp hp on hitting multiple enemies. Except for shade and WS which I take temp hp on crit due to their insane crit chance with dual weapons, and the very easy ability to get head shots with them which gives 2x temp hp. The shade with certain load outs gives the highest temp hp generation in the game with crit builds.

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