# Psyker Assail patch 14 nerf **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Feedback\ **Created:** [October 26, 2023, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382 "2023-10-26T13:50:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Flawless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eada6e/32.png) [@Flawless](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Flawless)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/61 "2023-10-27T17:38:18Z")
> [@desrocchi](#): > > Logical (it’s applied to the whole game): the damage you deal does not change with difficulty, only the enemy health pool > > Mechanical (it’s applied to single aspects of the game): a knife is a single target throw, a bomb is an AoE throw, a braing burst is a single target charged attack It looks a lot like by that definition, anything could be a logical or mechanical thing. And anything that falls under logical, could simply become mechanical, the moment one or more exceptions are made. logical: All guns shoot projectiles with limited cleave. except the plasmagun logical: All ult abilities have an instant effect and no duration. except the vet ult (and now others) logical: All blitz abilities have charges and require “grenade ammo”. except brainburst (and now smite) ---
**Author:** ![desrocchi](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/desrocchi/32/68379_2.png) [@desrocchi](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/desrocchi)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 5:48pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/62 "2023-10-27T17:48:01Z")
You can’t of won’t understand, I won’t explain any further. ---
**Author:** ![dragomusic](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/dragomusic/32/77374_2.png) [@dragomusic](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/dragomusic)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 12:14am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/63 "2023-10-28T00:14:45Z")
> [@Flawless](#): > > Apparently, most assail users do not agree. I don’t think I have talked to any self proclaimed “assail mains” so I can’t comment on what they think. > [@Flawless](#): > > No. > It would be a completely different thing. I mean mechanically it would still be the same thing. Do you think that a very high uptime on Assail is essential to its identity and playstyle? > [@Flawless](#): > > Assail never was anywhere near as oppressive or strong, as some people like to claim. > With patch 14, the absolute and relative power of the ability have been massively reduced. > If you spam it at regular enemies, you usually need 2x the shards to achieve the same thing as before. > Maybe people should shut up for a month or two, until they actually managed to read the patchnotes and tried using a few of the great options that the other 3 classes have. I personally disagree on this. Assail only being ineffective against 2 normal targets (Maulers and Crushers) was nutty and even on Auric Shocktroop Assail was overtuned. Personally I was fine with that power level if it didn’t have crazy uptime. Sorry if you have to repeat something you said before, but I’m not reading the 50+ posts this thread has accumulated. ---
**Author:** ![Wodenaz772](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/wodenaz772/32/54475_2.png) [@Wodenaz772](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Wodenaz772)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 7:22am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/64 "2023-10-28T07:22:26Z")
> [@desrocchi](#): > > most people play on lower difficulties. Especially new people like me that are climbing up on the difficulties are taken aback This is completely understandable. However, games that do not cater to the end-game, fizzle away and die out. Tide games especially, most people are either playing on heresy or damnation, since patch13, there’s been an influx of new players this is true, but i wouldn’t call these ‘core players.’ Those new players may not even stick around to climb up the difficulties, yet they may complain and demand for nerfs and changes then completely drop the game for another one month later. Before patch 13 there was anywhere between 1300 - 3000 concurrent players, it was like that for the majority of the time the game had been released for, no doubt a substantial majority were playing heresy or damnation for that duration. The majority of people who will still be playing this game for years to come, are those playing the highest difficulties right now. If the skill of a player trivialises the lower difficulties, thats the game telling you that its time for you to take the next step. If DT doesn’t focus on the higher difficulties it will eventually lose its core player base, the people who want that extreme challenge yet don’t want to be constantly nerfed because lower tier players thinking the game is too easy due to X, Y, and Z being OP. The reason why people such as myself and if i could speak on behalf of Flawless, keep mentioning damnation, is due to the fact that we know that is where the longevity of the game is. You mess with that difficulty, and you mess with the future of the game as a whole. The lower difficulties are, if im being honest, a joke. Your hand is held the entire way through, the only challenge presented is that of the skill of the team you were put in. I would strongly encourage people to play on the higher difficulties just so they can get a taste of what to expect and so they can have a better perspective of what their changes/nerfs will mean for them when they eventually climb the ladder. The lower difficulties are supposed to ease you in to the end game, you’re not supposed to stay there for a protracted amount of time. The challenge is already in the game, but making lower difficulties less trivial, means maiming people on the higher difficulties for no reason when you could just take the leap and leave malice for good. ---
**Author:** ![desrocchi](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/desrocchi/32/68379_2.png) [@desrocchi](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/desrocchi)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 9:30am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/65 "2023-10-28T09:30:01Z")
> [@Wodenaz772](#): > > The reason why people such as myself and if i could speak on behalf of Flawless, keep mentioning damnation, is due to the fact that we know that is where the longevity of the game is. You mess with that difficulty, and you mess with the future of the game as a whole. I have to understand the position of the devs also: they have to cater to both the players on the lower difficulties as well as the ones on the highest. I tried to do the same with my proposed solution by keeping it very powerful and viable for the higher difficulties as well as limited and not spammable in the lower ones. Obviously it’s not a fleshed out idea, just how the core mechanic could change in order to be both powerful and not spammable. ---
**Author:** ![Nish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9dc877/32.png) [@Nish](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Nish)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/66 "2023-10-28T14:10:31Z")
> [@Flawless](#): > > I am aware of the fact that he picked up almost all of the ammo The guy can pick all the ammo on the map and doesn’t run out. Wow, who would have thought? ---
**Author:** ![Flawless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eada6e/32.png) [@Flawless](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Flawless)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/67 "2023-10-28T14:13:34Z")
> [@Nish](#): > > > [@Flawless](#): > > > > I am aware of the fact that he picked up almost all of the ammo > > The guy can pick all the ammo on the map and doesn’t run out. Wow, who would have thought? This is getting ridiculous. > [@Flawless](#): > > **As you can see, he basically only used his gun.** > He never ran out of ammo and **we did not even deploy the ammo crate that we had.** > […] > I am aware of the fact that he picked up almost all of the ammo, but none of the teammates ran out of ammo and as you can see, **he basically never put his gun away. He could have used his melee against hordes and probably gotten more dmg with less ammo used.** Is it really that complex of a situation to undestand? Or are you trying to tell me, that ammo is too scarce as long as it is not possible for the entire team of 4 players to never use their melee and just shoot at every single thing? ---
**Author:** ![Nish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9dc877/32.png) [@Nish](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Nish)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 2:17pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/68 "2023-10-28T14:17:39Z")
> [@Flawless](#): > > **As you can see, he basically only used his gun.** > He never ran out of ammo and **we did not even deploy the ammo crate that we had.** > […] > I am aware of the fact that he picked up almost all of the ammo, but none of the teammates ran out of ammo and as you can see, **he basically never put his gun away. He could have used his melee against hordes and probably gotten more dmg with less ammo used.** What was he and the other Vet was using? I mean really is it so hard to understand that even a Loyal Protector Rumbler ogryn can shoot the whole game if he gets all the pickups? > [@Flawless](#): > > Or are you trying to tell me, that ammo is too scarce as long as it is not possible for the entire team of 4 players to never use their melee and just shoot at every single thing? I’m saying that if you get all the ammo on the map you can shoot the whole game with a lot of weapons. Running a game with 2 staff psykers and a Lasgun/Helbore Vet using shock trooper allows you to do this. Playing with no Survivalist vet on the team and revolver Zealot a Gunner Ogryn probably gets into danger territory ammo-wise. * * * On topic of Assail: Assail can get gunners/shotgunners faster and more efficiently than guns in the midrange. It is even more efficient and more reliable in taking down packed groups of shooters/shotgunners than a Bolter mag dump. I’m still unsure of the direction with it, or even that it’s actually that OP that warrants a big Nerf, but it is a very well-performing ability. I also don’t like shifting the power to right-click because it kinda goes into BB’s territory with that, or severely limits the usability. I think it’s fine that instead of “limited resource” Psyker gets a secondary power to round out hit Staff’s weakness. ---
**Author:** ![Flawless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eada6e/32.png) [@Flawless](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Flawless)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/69 "2023-10-28T15:14:07Z")
> [@Nish](#): > > Assail can get gunners/shotgunners faster and more efficiently than guns in the midrange. Shotgunners, yes probably. Elite gunners, no. Shotgunners are the only elite, where assail can usually outperform guns. ---
**Author:** ![Nish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9dc877/32.png) [@Nish](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Nish)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 3:20pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/70 "2023-10-28T15:20:05Z")
> [@Flawless](#): > > Elite gunners, no. I’m running it with Disrupt Destiny and it def outperforms. Also killing all the ranged chaff which is super helpful. On the Comms-Plex mission at the midpoint event, it’s the best shooter control you can get. It vastly outperforms anything else. You can just be on the lookout for the shooters spawning from the side and kill them faster and more reliably than anything else I’ve seen before with incredible ease. Same with the 6+ shotgunners spawning. It’s a good indication of it’s general power. ---
**Author:** ![Ashrad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Ashrad](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Ashrad)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 3:31pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/71 "2023-10-28T15:31:24Z")
Good thing about Assail vs most shooter is that it’ll keep them stagger so they’ll not shoot back. Most gun have to either kill them first or tank through hail of bullets and suppression to kill them. I still feel like spamming the most effective way to use it even after the patch tbh, I mostly only use secondary fire when I want to go for a single target. I’ll check it out more though. ---
**Author:** ![desrocchi](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/desrocchi/32/68379_2.png) [@desrocchi](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/desrocchi)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 3:36pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/72 "2023-10-28T15:36:48Z")
I’d also say that the other 2 skills need to be somewhat buffed because they are trash compared to Assail. BB should have its base charge speed as when Kinetic Resonance is active, and Smite should either have its Peril costs reduced to make it a CC skill or its damage doubled to make it a damaging skill. I’ve been trying to play something other than Assail and it’s abysmal to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![Flawless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eada6e/32.png) [@Flawless](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Flawless)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 4:19pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/73 "2023-10-28T16:19:15Z")
> [@Nish](#): > > > [@Flawless](#): > > > > Elite gunners, no. > > I’m running it with Disrupt Destiny and it def outperforms. Also killing all the ranged chaff which is super helpful. There are a few guns that can 1 shot elite gunners, at least when used by veteran. A good vet can swap to the gun and kill a few elite gunners before your shards even reach them. Assail is still good against elite gunners, but people generally overstate how well it does, while also massively understating how well a decent vet player could do it. Against all “non gunner” elites, guns are just vastly superior to assail. ---
**Author:** ![Nish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9dc877/32.png) [@Nish](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Nish)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 6:41pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/74 "2023-10-28T18:41:28Z")
> [@Flawless](#): > > There are a few guns that can 1 shot elite gunners, at least when used by veteran. > A good vet can swap to the gun and kill a few elite gunners before your shards even reach them. Yeah with a revolver for example (which is clearly overturned) yes you can swap and quickly delete a few elites. With Assail you kill the group of 4 gunners and the additional chaff shooters too. ---
**Author:** ![Nish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9dc877/32.png) [@Nish](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Nish)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 6:56pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/76 "2023-10-28T18:56:03Z")
> [@Flawless](#): > > I was not aware that shooter chaff counted as as “non gunner” elites. My bad, I’m pretty tired. Most guns are better against most elites than assail. ---
**Author:** ![FrostSpectre3888](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9a140/32.png) [@FrostSpectre3888](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/FrostSpectre3888)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 3:55pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/77 "2023-10-29T15:55:39Z")
I think it needs: reduction in Ammo to 5 and/or removal of Quick Shards ---
**Author:** ![Ayarraz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@Ayarraz](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Ayarraz)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/78 "2023-10-29T18:21:56Z")
So it should be useless. Nice. ---
**Author:** ![Flawless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eada6e/32.png) [@Flawless](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Flawless)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/79 "2023-10-29T20:37:08Z")
I think you need to take a look at anything else in the game. Literally anything. And then you might notice that assail is not even competitive when it comes to dealing with non ogryn elites (since patch 14). You seeminly have no idea what you are talking about, or what any of the classes (including psyker) have access to. You act like assail is some insanely strong. „Press to win“ button, that it is not. ---
**Author:** ![desrocchi](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/desrocchi/32/68379_2.png) [@desrocchi](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/desrocchi)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/80 "2023-10-29T20:39:35Z")
I agree, Assail does not need to be nerfed, it just needs to be more situational. ---
**Author:** ![Flawless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eada6e/32.png) [@Flawless](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Flawless)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 8:47pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382/81 "2023-10-29T20:47:39Z")
> [@desrocchi](#): > > Assail does not need to be nerfed, it just needs to be more situational. That is a contradiction. [Previous page](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/psyker-assail-patch-14-nerf/85382.md?page=5)