Pointless controversial polls

… for two unrelated topics. Without much comments:

  • Moonbow is being used with an overwhelming majority on all Kerillian careers on Cataclysm:
  • That’s still just novelty
  • Maybe something is wrong with its balance

0 voters

  • People abuse Glory to Greed:
  • Farming is thrilling peak gaming and should stay like this because it is in Lore with the actual Chaos God behind the curse
  • Farming is mind-numbing boring and the curse should be changed to give fewer and fewer Pilgrim’s coins per pick-up in a decay-like function

0 voters

Yes, I am aware about the endless Moonfire bow discussion thread. Just wanted to give another perspective. Also, for Glory to Greed I see it personally as pure hypocrisy. People complained that Expeditions are taking to long or that each and everything should be fun. However, they have zero issues farming a curse for 15+ minutes. Anything’s fine as long as it allows powergaming.

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Moonbow is the most glorious thing to ever happen in Verm2. Almost up to par with the legend of what trueflight waywatcher used to be in Verm1. It’s Queen Kerillian’s royal and divine mandate to dunk on ratmen, scunners and even lumberfoots if they get in the way of her fire.

That being said, farming the wubwub curse is just depressing. I think a possible fix would be to allow coins as the only item that can spawn and be picked up normally through the map (so still a fixed quantity), and at the same time remove them from the possible drops of the wubwub spheres.

An interesting change to moonfire without a direct damage nerf would be to change amount of energy consumed or how quickly it recharges, allowing the weapon to still shine but not 24/7.

4 Likes

Is farming Glory to Greed really that big a problem? I mean, you have limited inventory spaces and you get so many drops during those runs you can basically just spam items as you move, at most I have had a team stay 2 minutes extra at the end if they want to grab healing + other supplies to take into the next mission.

I see more players spend ages on maps scrounging for Pilgrim’s Coins, and even that I see in less than half my runs.

1 Like

The instant you let go of W, you stop playing Vermintide. Not in the sense of speedrunning, but this used to be a pretty gloomy game where you constantly felt oppressed, under threat, and scrambled for the next area that offered relative safety or a chance for supplies. In my opinion, enemies should never be seen as resources.

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I don’t see many people farming Glory to Greed tbh and when they do, it’s usually because they know they’re a little short off an additional shrine purchase rather than e.g 0 coins to 600.

More often than not, I don’t get enough coins from the hexed enemies but farming is tedious so I move on. (Usually down to level modifiers or clear speed)

1 Like

Moonbow will just always be the main go-to for shade/handmaiden as long as it remains a weapon that lets them clear the occasional special/elites and not have to worry about ammo or even aim.

Its not a matter of balance, it´s just a matter of function and purpose. Even if it could only kill 3 specials at a time before hitting the cooling phase then it´d still be the best on those 2. Its the same as the competition between volleybow vs longbow on shade, the former isnt bad but because the latter is better at that one job it tends to absolutely dominate pickrates.

On waystalker it´s not actually the best choice outside expeditions where the other bows are too weak early on, but there are quite a few boons that can flip that around even if you dont upgrade to blue+ for a long time.

As for the GtG curse, i havent encountered any long farming camps, just a few grabbing 200-ish extra coins at most before a shrine.

If you´d use this like you would any other bow on waystalker you´d quickly note that this thing is far from active as much as they are…i do not think longer downtime is the answer.

3 Likes

The major problem with Glory to Greed is when you have beastmen in the pool. Gors can spawn the loot pinatas unlike skaven and rotblood trash.

That’s the only thing that really needs to be addressed imo. Beastmen are the only viable farm on Legend and below due to their horde compositions. And even with Cata’s mixed hordes non-beastmen farms are slow enough to discourage the practice.

1 Like

Aye I was kinda surprised to see that when reading up guides.
Farming feels tedious, it’s only really worthwhile if I’m a few coins short off an altar or upcoming shrine.

I envy you. If you had to wait in front of the portal just so that your team can grab 1000 Pilgrim’s coins twice or thrice you would feel the pain. And one of them even said, they farmed to 3000 before …

It is mostly a problem with Beastmen but can also be seen at the end of the Forbidden Trail or similar. It is just a tedious exercise. Nonetheless, even if you and other people here rarely encounter farming, would you lose something by adjusting the dropping algorithm of the orbs? Like the first picked-up box of coins gives you 150 coins then 100, 70, 55, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5, 2, 1, …

Effectively, you would ease the need to search for special enemies everywhere and you would limit the farming by actively discouraging it.

2 Likes

Moonfire is problematic and will be as long as it has the combination of great damage / unlimited ammo. Heck bardins flame pistols are absolute meme compared to it.

Glory to greed I could not care less about. The mode already loses any meaning for money the moment you jackpot couple useful perks.

I dunno, I have had some brutal CW expeditions, e.g. one where Citadel Stage 1 was Tzeentch Lightning + bonus Specials, and half the team was dead from the last map, we spent perhaps 10m clearing specials and fighting all the enemies that came at us while trying to avoid getting them in lightning just at the bottom of the big ramp near the start until we could finally press in and rezz them, then we got forced back again until we could finally push out and move on. It was some of the most fun I have had on that map facing what at first seemed like an unimpenetrable wall of specials and elites. And that round was with the Fortune Shrine drops (although they didn’t save our butts anywhere near as much as the knockback from RV smokebombs and FK ult did).

Yeah I guess I have been lucky then, most players I encountered duo-queueing balanced spending time collecting coins/items with moving on at least relatively well. Never had to wait too ridiculously long.

A bigger problem were the odd player that activated a boss shrine at terrible moments when the team said no or refusing to ever carry/move the torch in miasma missions while not actually helping out the team vs mixed bosses and so on.

Forbidden Trail is the forest map with the endless enemies at the end, no? I have never had a team farm it, but I guess diminishing returns on coin drops would be an idea.

Or I have just been unlucky. But I think there is a solution for “my issues” without causing new issues for other players. And yea, Forbidden Trail is the endless stream one. So can realistically expect a few Plague Monks in regular intervals.

Well, it is still a minor problem. Focussed should be on fixing annoying bugs and creating new boons.

1 Like

I agree, rather than nerfing it into oblivion (as I fear will happen), it should get a recharge nerf for a start.

3 Likes

The lockout could be doubled too. Right now it’s not that noticeable even if you do trigger it.

The other alternative I liked to the recharge nerf in the other Moonbow thread was half the damage but double the ammo pool, so you have to invest more time/shots into kills and having it out.

I like that the Moonbow is so different hence I’d be reluctant to just see it nerfed into the ground damage-wise (although uncharged arrows doing so much DoT damage would be a point to start, that aspect doesn’t really make much sense to me), creative solutions would be good.

2 Likes

The moonfire has so many unnecessary advantages on top of unlimited ammo it’d probably be easier just to make it a more general feeling weapon than a hagbane with armor piercing (and faster flying projectiles that don’t drop, feels more like bolt staff than a bow). I think the damage is too much, there should be some obvious reward to charging shots but a one shot on cata should only be to a charged headshot with a couple ticks of DoT for its theme to kick in and for you to properly feel some disadvantage for its unlimited use.

As for glory to greed its just a badly themed ‘curse’ the whole way through, honestly it could appear on the shrine list of miracles instead and I would buy it every time.

I can say I’ve never been in a group that spent 15 minutes to get +1000 coins in one map.

The only time we did any grinding was after doing a +coins map that dished out a grand total of 90 coins for us, the grind was actually necessary at that point, sucked. But trying to get enough coins for every single shrine sounds obnoxious (half of the boons are curses anyway. Moment of silence to the Merc’s with cursed on-ammo-pickup only boons).

1 Like

Moonbow is effectively a handgun with DoT, AoE, limitless ammo and no real reload wait. Of course everyone is going to play with such a weapon - it’s simply too good at everything and has made everything else obsolete. The nerf (If it comes, after all this is an elf weapon) will cause epic levels of squinnying and a veritable salt mountain that’ll bury any sensible person.

I’ve been stuck in a group that wanted 1500 coins from the WubWub Pingu balls. “but we wahnt to buy all the things!” I mean come on it’s aggravating. Something to cause problems if you keep collecting coins from Pingu pinyatas would be nice - instant death for those being greedy or something.

Noot Noot Wallop loadsa money has to be nerfed surely.

3 Likes

I don’t care about the pinatas. They exist. If a group wants to farm em, by all means. Whenever I get it, I feel like it’s always on forbidden trail and just becomes a wasted opportunity.

As for moonbow, I still stand by my position of it needing to be slightly better on WS over the others by virtue of arrow storm existing. If that means an energy consumption nerf to other elgi careers, I can live with that. The binary poll presented here doesn’t really do it justice.

2 Likes

Something needs to be done to its damage, too. You don’t even have to try to kill any specials or elites from long range. Maybe the DoT could be nerfed, while its direct damage is increased, so that it requires a headshot to kill specials/elites. The damage per shot is far higher than any of Kerillian’s other weapons, and it barely matters whether you get a body or headshot.

And I do agree with BizarreSalp that I don’t want to see it nerfed into the ground, so I hope they’re cautious with nerfs to it. I really like the bow, but it’s just so blatantly overpowered right that now something has to be done with it.

1 Like
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