# Please give an example of the enemy you hate the most in Havoc mode and explain why it's the Gunner **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 16, 2026, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596 "2026-05-16T16:30:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Awuga](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/awuga/32/98518_2.png) [@Awuga](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Awuga)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 3:25am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/22 "2026-05-17T03:25:39Z")
i like the idea, im just minging about how chaos warriors are way cooler than crushers ---
**Author:** ![Fuplaayz](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/fuplaayz/32/11157_2.png) [@Fuplaayz](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Fuplaayz)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 4:15pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/23 "2026-05-17T16:15:56Z")
> [@anon63448941](#): > > then the game wouldn’t need 15 gunners spread out across the area to do the job of one yeah I’m pretty sure it has nothing to do w the inferno ---
**Author:** ![anon63448941](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@anon63448941](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/anon63448941)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/24 "2026-05-17T20:12:50Z")
Inferno also shuts down Gunners without any effort at all, only limited by shorter range than Blaze Bolt. Completely trivializes them. ---
**Author:** ![Fuplaayz](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/fuplaayz/32/11157_2.png) [@Fuplaayz](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Fuplaayz)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/25 "2026-05-17T21:03:21Z")
What I was trying to say, I don’t think FS balanced spawns w inferno in mind. They prolly looked at some data and tweaked it etc etc ---
**Author:** ![anon63448941](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@anon63448941](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/anon63448941)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2026, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/26 "2026-05-17T21:32:53Z")
Yeah I couldn’t say for certain what specific data determines the rate of Elite spawns, but logic suggests if an individual enemy is not a threat there are two ways to make them more of a threat - change the individual enemy or duplicate that individual enemy. ---
**Author:** ![goatstealer](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/goatstealer/32/111315_2.png) [@goatstealer](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/goatstealer)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2026, 12:25am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/27 "2026-05-18T00:25:51Z")
I don’t play Havoc but I’ll say this much as to why I hate Gunners: It’s because I’m jealous of those Hotshot Volleyguns and Belt-fed Stubbers that they shoot at me with. I wanna use those guns too. D’: ---
**Author:** ![anon63448941](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@anon63448941](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/anon63448941)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2026, 2:29am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/28 "2026-05-18T02:29:32Z")
> [@goatstealer](#): > > I’m jealous of those Hotshot Volleyguns and Belt-fed Stubbers How does FS carve out a niche for Hotshot volley guns when Recon is already as strong as it is though? Maybe a charge up period before the weapon can be fired and if the Hotshot started out very inaccurate, became more accurate the longer the trigger is held. Higher suppression than Recon, higher cleave than Recon against Flak/Unarmored/Infested, higher ammo capacity than Recon; less range, mobility and accuracy than Recon. Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![goatstealer](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/goatstealer/32/111315_2.png) [@goatstealer](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/goatstealer)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2026, 2:46am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/29 "2026-05-18T02:46:48Z")
> [@anon63448941](#): > > How does FS carve out a niche for Hotshot volley guns when Recon is already as strong as it is though? > > Maybe a charge up period before the weapon can be fired and if the Hotshot started out very inaccurate, became more accurate the longer the trigger is held. Higher suppression than Recon, higher cleave than Recon against Flak/Unarmored/Infested, higher ammo capacity than Recon; less range, mobility and accuracy than Recon. Pretty much. Though instead of a charge period, I’d have the Volleygun have stricter movement penalties in a similar vein to the Flamer, that and it’d have a long draw period to emphasize it being a heavy weapon. But in turn not only would the Volleygun deal more damage per bolt with slightly more cleave and suppression, I’d also give it enough armor penetration to be worth using against Crushers while it’s comparatively lower damage doesn’t step too hard on the toes of the Bolter or Plasma. Finally assuming that they can be implemented with a power back slung on the Veteran’s back, Volleyguns would have a big ammo pool that negates reloads but would have heat mechanics to limit how long you can fire. So basically Volleyguns would boast superior DPS and armor pen/cleave but would be far clunkier and difficult to position with compared to the Recon. Come to think of it, you could implement similar mechanics to make a standard Hellgun/Hotshot Lasgun while still having the Helbore/Infantry Lasgun be relevant enought to use. ---
**Author:** ![anon63448941](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@anon63448941](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/anon63448941)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2026, 3:16am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/30 "2026-05-18T03:16:06Z")
> [@goatstealer](#): > > Finally assuming that they can be implemented with a power back slung on the Veteran’s back, Volleyguns would have a big ammo pool that negates reloads but would have heat mechanics to limit how long you can fire. > > So basically Volleyguns would boast superior DPS and armor pen/cleave but would be far clunkier and difficult to position with compared to the Recon. Love it. It reads like a solid area control weapon with Crushers and/or Carapace clad Ragers (high mobility enemies) being the strong counter against it due to the slower weapon swap speed and > [@goatstealer](#): > > I’d have the Volleygun have stricter movement penalties in a similar vein to the Flamer Maybe there could also be an interaction with objects that Vet can already peek out of using ADS on certain guns, but an option to mount the Hotshot Volleygun on these objects for greatly increased accuracy at sacrifice to literally all mobility. ---
**Author:** ![Enforest](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/enforest/32/73699_2.png) [@Enforest](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Enforest)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2026, 6:39am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/31 "2026-05-18T06:39:37Z")
Reapers are fine by themselves, but with cranial or red they are immune to their hard counters (high impact and suppression) and become another boring DPS check. Gunners just spawn too much. Some rooms have up to 15 gunners in one spot and in general they are more common than basic shooters which makes no sense. Also the update that allowed them to move while shooting broke their ai and they just point blank while kiting most of the time. The biggest problem with havoc was high mass spam like 10 crushers backed by 5 disablers and 3 bombers. They was straight up unfair BS, and reduction in ogryn spawn rate was a creat change. ---
**Author:** ![Fuplaayz](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/fuplaayz/32/11157_2.png) [@Fuplaayz](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Fuplaayz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2026, 8:01am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/32 "2026-05-18T08:01:06Z")
Honestly, the easiest fix for the M1 flamer stagger would be for the only first 2-3 to stagger, then target becomes immune for a small duration. I think it would be reasonable ---
**Author:** ![JanZamoysky](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/janzamoysky/32/87926_2.png) [@JanZamoysky](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/JanZamoysky)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2026, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/33 "2026-05-18T22:08:43Z")
> [@Vror](#): > > Reapers having very noticeable War Cries when starting to rev up the weapon would be soooo good They actually have some animations and audio cues…but we all know what happens to those. I don’t think we need one more audio cue which will be never played 😉 ---
**Author:** ![anon63448941](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@anon63448941](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/anon63448941)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2026, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/34 "2026-05-18T22:20:22Z")
I’m sure it’ll play though, along with the Eleven Flamers flaming, Ten Shotgunners grunting, Nine Gunners gunning, Eight Ragers raging, Seven Maulers mauling, Six Bulwarks boasting, Five Bombers bombing, Four Snipers sniping, Three Bursters bursting, Two silent Trapperrrs, And a Burrrrgle in a puddle of goop ---
**Author:** ![Palumtra](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/palumtra/32/119106_2.png) [@Palumtra](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Palumtra)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 12:57am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/35 "2026-05-19T00:57:30Z")
Trapper. No elaboration needed. ---
**Author:** ![pebbletaro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pebbletaro](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/pebbletaro)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 1:30am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/36 "2026-05-19T01:30:55Z")
the burst fire npcs, they can shred your toughness and HP faster than anything, and from across the map without you even knowing theyre there, and theres no real way to counter it other than dodge or kill them (unless you dont know theyre there), or have a class specific talent (like ogryn 20% ranged resist) ---
**Author:** ![Effigy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e99b99/32.png) [@Effigy](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Effigy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 3:00am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/37 "2026-05-19T03:00:21Z")
> [@Enforest](#): > > Reapers are fine by themselves Except for the desync with their facing and actual firing angle. If I try to circle-strafe them and they’re still shooting bullets out of their ass to kill me, that’s not acceptable IMO. ---
**Author:** ![eatingsand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/aca169/32.png) [@eatingsand](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/eatingsand)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 4:19am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/38 "2026-05-19T04:19:40Z")
i dont hate any but i’ve gotten bored of all of them they gotta add new enemies already, it’s a shame this game never got new enemy factions or anything like that and scabs and dregs already feel samey to begin with ---
**Author:** ![Harridas](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/harridas/32/25941_2.png) [@Harridas](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Harridas)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 6:14am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/39 "2026-05-19T06:14:40Z")
![image](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/fatshark/original/3X/7/a/7a0b35a9ac545be90b8db68d5b5bf63674b49e99.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Margeret-Dayhoff](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/margeret-dayhoff/32/92972_2.png) [@Margeret-Dayhoff](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Margeret-Dayhoff)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 6:38am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/40 "2026-05-19T06:38:16Z")
The greatest enemy in havoc is a team mate who shoots pox bursters in your face. Besides that, the out-of-LOS bombers and especially tox-bombers. Last but not least is getting pushed into something deadly, like overheading maulers, pools of fire, or over an edge by THE FUGKING KNOCKBACK FROM A JUMPING DOG, or the blowing shield of a captain. Statistically speaking though I think most players die to being swarmed by simple poxwalkers. ---
**Author:** ![Enforest](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/enforest/32/73699_2.png) [@Enforest](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Enforest)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 9:37am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596/41 "2026-05-19T09:37:45Z")
> [@Effigy](#): > > Except for the desync with their facing and actual firing angle. If I try to circle-strafe them and they’re still shooting bullets out of their ass to kill me, that’s not acceptable IMO. Desynchs are the problem. Same could be said for silent Trappers, Poxbursters not going off next to you, flamers locking in a kick animation stunlocking you, Pox hounds instantly latching on you without pounce animation, Bruisers skating through half of the room and hitting you mid-dodge, etc. [Previous page](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/please-give-an-example-of-the-enemy-you-hate-the-most-in-havoc-mode-and-explain-why-its-the-gunner/121596.md?page=3)