I think his point is that the cause and effect is op player stuff → giant clumps of enemies → now infinite cleave is op too.
If FS didn’t (need to) use swarm tactics to deal with general player power then AOE effects lose value at the same time without any need to target them directly.
If you reverse that order, nerf the AOE weapons, then nerf the original cause of the elite spam, then you have nerfed those weapons twice. Which might be too much.
I’m about as far from a never-nerfer as you can get but the logic is solid.
^ Right, and at the same time, even if stuff comes at you from different directions, and currently it’s mostly front and back when that happens, anyone worth their salt will reposition some (if applicable) to not be pincered and at the same clump things up for more effective cleaving/AoE dispatch and keeping the mobs in better trackable positions. I’m also certain there are plenty of players/groups who just plant their feet and fight where they are, surrounded and getting pummelled from at least 2 sides, we’ve all seen it.
We’re far off from having a more human-like enemy AI in these types of games where mobs may decide that “hey let’s not bunch up, that guy just rumbled the crap out of half of us”. In the meantime we have to make do with tweaking a whole bunch of other stuff to simulate challenge.
The AoE issues also apply to melee cleave vs mass in the end too, as that is another aspect of balancing that can be subject to change in a global rebalancing pass.
In the end, we probably agree on the changes that need to be made. Or at least try to, and if possible, in small steps and not “all at once.” The problem is getting the information across in a structured and coherent way. It might be beneficial to have “ambassadors” representing the players’ voices who would talk to the developers’ “ambassadors” and thus, using surveys and other means, convey the changes that need to be made in a simple and concise manner. We’re talking about changes that harm games and players, not about personal needs and desires.
Ambassadors, voice of reason, surveys, community poll, whatever you want to use I seriously doubt fatshark is going to listen.
They’ve already shown before that they completely discard the opinion of playtesters each time they drop a patch people didn’t like and was playtested.
The whole reason we’re in this mess is because:
update comes out > buff > player happy
update comes out > nerf > player unhappy > review bomb
Doesn’t matter what the state of the game is going to be players like being stronger, they don’t care that the balance is completely whack and that you can finish the most difficult game mode by just having your shield up and making your dog play the game for you.
At this point there’s so much powercreep I don’t even care what they nerf just that they nerf something to show they still plan on balancing the game.
I honestly prefer infiltrate to shroudfield, sure you don’t get the big backstab damage but you get 2 uses it lasts longer and supresses everything around you when you exit it and supression is kinda underrated.
Well, FWIW it seems like consolers are over-represented on Reddit, if vids and phone pics are anything to go by, make of that what you will.
I both feel sorry for and get irritated by consolers: they’re playing with a clear disadvantage in HW and controllers, further behind by the prevalence of difficulty stripping mods, but at the same time it’s a different attitude, commitment and cooperation/teamwork mantra.
Half of them seem immune to learning or even the friendliest advice and Reddit has the Ork-mind thing going for it too, so a poll like that could have been subject to the gestalt field skewing the votes for one option.
e.g. Two almost identical gameplay videos are posted, someone makes a helpful suggestion like “slide more to avoid that situation”, one is met with a thanks or at worse neutrality, the other is downvoted into oblivion and brigaded with “Don’t tell me how to play bro!111! You’re not my kommissar!111!”.
It’s often weird there, hel even Discord makes fun of the “Reddit Takes”
yes, infiltrate allows you to unload a bolter and then just saunter behind your team while reloading and unload it again WITH a 30% damage buff. I really feel like it’s not given it’s due.
