Please don't change the Mace w/ shield and the Spear w/ shield

Let me be clear. The buffs are fine. I love the buffs to the mace w/ shield. This post is purely about the attack patterns.

Their attack patterns are fine the way they are. They are, by nature, simpler weapons compared to most others. Having a consistent attack pattern with the light attacks is what makes these weapons stick out compared to the others. The mace/shield has pure cleave attacks and the Spear/shield has pure stab attacks. Changing these weapons the way that they have been changed makes them just like every other weapons.

The mace/shield becomes:

  1. Sword/shield
  2. Axe/shield
  3. 1h Sword
  4. Elven 1h Sword
  5. Falchion
  6. Flail
  7. Flaming flail
  8. Flaming sword
  9. Bretonnian longsword

All of which have the attack pattern of two swipes and one anti armor. I used to use the 2h axe and the 2h hammer a lot when I played Vermintide 1. But because of the attack pattern change to the light attacks when V2 released I hardly ever use them.

The spear/shield doesn’t need the change because that is what the first heavy is for, but because this is a horde game the stabing weapon must be changed, losing what makes it unique to all other weapons.

To be clear. I love the buffs, but hate the changes. I feel like two of my favorite weapons are being changed to be like every other weapon and losing their identity in the process.

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The weapons are better than they used to be. Mace and shield’s identity was being “Hot Garbage” and needed some changes.

Spear and shield wasn’t bad before like mace and shield was, but the new light pattern is powerful and nifty. Relying on heavy attacks for horde clear is always clunky af.

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Some changes, definitely. Swapping the heavy attack chain around so that the shield bash is first, however, is completely unnecessary and just turns it into every other shield weapon (“just spam shield bash block cancel bro!”).

The spear and shield hordeclear combo went from being
heavy -> light and looping over and over (sweep -> stab -> sweep -> stab -> sweep -> stab etc etc)
to being
heavy -> light -> light and looping over and over (sweep -> stab -> light sweep -> sweep -> stab -> light sweep etc etc)
There’s practically no difference in the effectiveness of either combo, because while you’re getting an extra sweep out of the combo, it’s not as good as the heavy sweep you’d be getting instead, for about the same amount of time. So there’s basically almost no gain there.
But, you now have a sweep mixed into the light attack chain, which makes the weapon feel much more unwieldy than before. This is why I personally dislike that change as well.

Like, before, you had total control over what your weapon was doing. Total control. You knew exactly what buttons to press in absolutely any situation, to get to whatever attack you wanted.
This was because it was all so tightly packed, where all light attacks were stabs, and all light attacks chained into the 1st heavy, but the push attack chained into the 2nd heavy, etc.
TLDR: It was a small change, but I feel like the 3rd light being a sweep made the weapon lose a bit of player agency in what you’re doing, for little to no benefit. I feel like the real changes the spear & shield need is stronger armor pierce on H2 and H3, and the light attack chain being turned back into what it was.

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It’s not an unnoticeable difference in horde clear on fanatics with the light attack chain, the light sweep is a decent profile:
The heavy sweep doesn’t have a better damage cleave profile on fanatics: the damage looks like this
Heavy sweep- (21-6-4-3)->34, Light attack 3 (12-7-6-4-4-4)->37
You might be able to tell that light attack 3 has more damage cleave (9.9 vs 8.48) and linesman which is better than tank for non-roamer horde enemies ( fanatics and slaverats).

Moreover animation time on heavy-> light should be 1.31s(0.88s+0.43s), however, my calc seems to indicate some sort of 0.10s delay in there pushing it to 1.41s (but it might just be wrong)
Heavy->light->light is 1.89s and light attack chain is 1.44s.

The light attack 3 does slightly more horde damage and you get an extra poke out in the same time.

What does it translate to in practice? I get 17% less dps (60 vs 72) using Heavy->light and 25% slower horde clear speed for 60 fanatics (32s vs 43s) vs light attack chain.
Link
Heavy->light->light is maybe another 5-8% better than light chain.

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Dang, you put work in! I knew the light attack combo felt better.

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