I would realy like to see the 2h axe for bardin buffed. Curently it’s a worse 2h hammer, the only thing it has going for it is slightly better dodghe/movment.
some option i think would be acceptable would be to:
increase the damage
increase the cleave
reduce the amount of damage it loses per target hit, specificaly when hiting slave/clanrats before an armored target.
any one of these changes would make the 2h axe viable
That has been fixed already, I haven’t seen that happen in a while.
Fatshark, some clarification please. The beta patch notes on Steam contain this bullet point for the Waystalker:
Weavebond - Reworked: Melee strikes and headshots grant 2 temporary health. Critical headshots restores twice as much.
The patch notes here however say “critical strikes” instead. While I hope the text on Steam is the correct one, I fear it is the other way round…
Pyro passive needs a nerf too – are you kidding me? They already killed everything pyro can use to reduce overcharge and nerfed her damage across the board by removing the 10% damage buff.
Waystalker needs a harder nerf – disagree. Waystalker was the one ranged class that really felt good pre-patch. You could use your ranged weapons a lot, but you couldn’t spam them against every ambient foe. I’d be sort of ok with removing the “gain ammo on ult” talent, but that was already nerfed slightly with the increased cd on ult. I certainly wouldn’t nerf her more than that.
Temp health should still be deleted – please no.
Natural bond will definitely be good, but I’d bet that bonus healing will be better for melee classes with the new temp health talents. Natural bond’s big niche will be health sustain on ranged classes, and that’s sort of necessary after the big temp health changes.
All of this is patch notes parsing, not gameplay experience.
I’ll check @Mephane, I did some “find/replace” for some words in the fora as there were some inconsistencies with the term Crit and Critical, maybe something got swooped up in the edits.
edit: Steam and here say the same thing. I’m confused what you mean 
edit2: I see what you mean. Steam was wrong. These forums were right.
Excited to try all the stuff out, but this makes me sad Quad-Axe-Slayer is so awesome, don’t see the reason behind nerfing his staple weapon. He was in a pretty good place before
Also, I would agree that the Scrounger nerf only hurts non-ranged carreers. And removing the cooldown on kill on BH blessed shots only hurts the hunter build, not the regular Scrounger build. All just parsing feedback, but this is my first impression. But I guess it’s a beta, so nothing’s set in stone.
Firs off its awesome that you work on the balancing Fatshark!
Im installing the beta right now but i already have a question about the changes to the shieldvermin.
The main problem with them as i understood it, was that they were not fun to fight. I can’t really see how this change makes any differenc in that regard. It just got a bit easier to kill them but they still don’t allow for any skillfull play or teamplay. When i look at posts like this Shielded stormvermin
i see that people where suggesting a change like you did in the update. I have to admit i was hoping for a different change.
I just wanna know if you @Fatshark_Hedge know the reason why they got changed the way they got.
I really like most of the other changes.
Boy, this’ll take a couple of weeks to test, before you can say confidently about even half of the stuff changed here.
Also, @SquattingBear 's spreadsheet update for the beta - would mean a great deal to learn the weapon changes, and evaluate the balance once more.
Don’t forget to check my edit pls.^^
It’s both… especially the ultimates are too strong with low cd’s and buffed careers/ weapons.
I played and play NB, so this buff seems too hard for me.
Weapons like flail in your log didn’t need a buff in my eyes. It was strong in zealot prepatch. There are others questionable buffs Top, which i didn’t test yet.
I haven’t tested WS / HM. But 10s cd increase and “nothing” on god tier careers is not really a nerf.
The HM ultimate is too strong.
The " I can do all WS too".
I think i wrote down enough about them in other threads. The kits + weapon arsenal are just insane, even with the DD nerf.
So it finally needs skill / heat management to play this char? Her melees got buffed so…
There are enough ways to have nearly endless ammunition. She has everything you want in this game and 10s more cd won’t change that.
And why not?
Passiv heal + heal yourself + heal others ( with the new perk) ??? Why would we need anything else than NB or endless draughts? It’s too strong atm.
And Temp health changes were needed and every decent player wouldn’t get so much hit in the backline , that he/she needs a big grey bar.
Temp health was/is just comfort and shouldn’t be in a game like that.
No it’s not.
I just wanna know if you @Fatshark_Hedge know the reason why they got changed the way they got.
Not the exact reasons no, but experience tells me it’s an easy way to make them more manageable without diving in to more complex code. If it’s not the right change though in general, we can look further in to it, but this is an ok first step in the journey to balance.
Thank you for the reply. That would of course be an understandable reason. I consider myself as very lucky anyway, when i look at how often already changes where made in previous patches exactly in the way i like them (More melee boss damage, More reach on two handed sword, no temp health on ranged kills, etc).
Natural bond + healing its great, but should be limited to 50-75% of the normal healing item capacity.
Kruber’s repeater handgun needs an increase ammo from 32 to 40
@Fatshark_Hedge There’s an issue with Glaive. It doesn’t respond as well as it did pre-beta. You can’t seem to stop attacks with block anymore, it seems to commit to an extra attack. Just noticed others on the Discord have wrote the same thing XD
@Fatshark_Hedge There’s an issue with Glaive. It doesn’t respond as well as it did pre-beta. You can’t seem to stop attacks with block anymore, it seems to commit to an extra attack. Just noticed others on the Discord have wrote the same thing XD
Yep, we’re checking it out. (edit: In the morning, it’s like 23:16 here!)
After some preliminary testing, you all might consider switching one of these to the temp health on crit while in melee (similar to WS/BH). In many ways, pyro now plays like an atk speed/crit version of Unchained and this would synergize with her passive. I’d probably suggest replacing temp health on kill.
Really? Handmaiden is god tier? God tier at soloing/speedrunning, sure, but she definitely isn’t god tier for normal legend runs. I like her a lot, mind you, but I’d definitely put her behind zealot/slayer/shade/ranged meta classes pre-patch.
For waystalker, she has everything you want, but most of her stuff isn’t that strong. Her kit is mostly “solid ult, ammo regen, and good weapons”. That’s good, sure, but something like bh’s crits provide far more raw damage output.
Also, for elf careers in general, the dual dagger nerfs will hurt most of the top tier builds, and the glaive changes could also end up being a nerf in practice. I’d be careful about calling for additional nerfs until we get a feel for how balance shakes out in practice.
Why keep temp health around? I enjoy the mechanic. Particularly with the changes, you have to get into melee in order to get temp health, but it gives you some much needed wiggle room if you are able to melee successfully. Bonus healing + temp health talents should be pretty damn solid on the right melee class. Generating a ton of temp health in critical moments can easily be more helpful than a slow trickle of healing and heal share. That said, I wouldn’t argue with natural bond reducing the self heal from healing items by 30% or something.
The comment about patch notes parsing was about my feedback, not yours.
You had a bad day or something?
There’s nothing endless about that trait. I simply like support-stuff, and also getting rid of tep HP.
I wouldn’t respond to him… it never ends well, he just got out of a temp ban and he’s gonna blame us for “baiting” him into an argument.
Thanks for looking into the glaive Hedge. Also, temp hp on cleave doesn’t seem to be working properly. On 2 enemies it doesn’t seem to proc.
New dual daggers heavy kills SV with 3(!) bodyshots with 30%(!)VS Skaven itembuild. The bleed change seems almost irrelevant. If daggers needed to be balanced around shade, why would you nerf it’s main damage burst? Remove bleed from daggers entirely, if balance is to be sought somewhere, but heavy is really underwhelming now. Inb4 people start telling me it’s a headhot heavy - I understand, but even with 30% Skaven build a heavy headshot does not(!) kill SV anymore. Maybe that was intended, but it certainly does not help Shade snipe elites and specials (like the balance post explained).
No
Me too, but i meant… This one together with the new NB or chance on not consume seems to end in endless heal. The amount of heals on the most maps is too high. (Especially 4 heals before events/ lords)
I don’t know your playstyle/skill/experience, so it’s quite hard to argue about it.
1st the dd nerf was needed… It was strong before the melee weapons buff and got buffed again Lul. Her overall Arsenal got fixed/buffed, so this wouldn’t affect her that hard.
The HM is able to true solo legend quite easy. Her ultimate let you avoid a lot of dangerous situations (disabler, patrols) through it’s range, stealth and los cd’s. On top of that it bleeds hordes to death , meanwhile you’ve 3s to kill anything out of the stealth.
She was and probably still is a strong boss Killer too through the extended hero power.
She might got no endless ammunition , but her overall buffed dmg, utility, mobility and surviveability makes her definately a good tier career.
The WS got too much with all. She is easy to play, can kite everything , got a special deleter ultimate , tons of ammunition, lifereg and dmg… She has it all and 0 con.
The problem with temp health is the comfortable LMB smash. Either it’s too strong or it’s too low. You can’t really balance it.
Some perks like the new heal-share and maybe 20-40 more base health ( based on career ) would be better.
The new temp health traits force the players to a special weapon / playstyle and that isn’t great in my eyes too.
“WS can kite everything”. Okay. I’ll just leave it there. “0 con at all”. Do you main elf? I don’t know whether it’s a lot, but I’m elf 30+439 and 90% of it was on legend - WS is the WEAKEST of the three careers… By far. You should really relax and go play with the nerfed weapons first. Then test the buffed weapons to realize that they are still somewhat underwhelming and, as such, elf’s kit really hasn’t been expanded all that much. Besides, the fact that her strong weapons have been nerfed makes that kit more meager than before. Honestly, it feels like people didn’t test things at all…