Doesn’t really matter if it’s a beta. You cannot take a completely useless talent (for the most obvious of reasons), make it way, way worse (practically useless) and expect people to have faith in you doing anything right. Truly astounding.
Next thing you know, we’ll get a talent that reduces your max health, with the reasoning that it further increases the need to avoid damage, so it’s actually good…!
what a patch, u MADLADS outdid yourself. Enjoy your vacation, really appreciate a big balance patch in the meantime:)
I mean they’re asking feedback you know. What do you want them to do ? It’s only a, to quote them, ‘highly experimental’ beta.
I can’t explain in detail and you can definitely find threads explaining it on this forum, but it’s basically different traits added to a weapon attack that makes it behave differently.
It denotes cleave and stagger and is dependent both on the weapon attack profile and the enemy you use the attack on.
I want them to understand very basic logic. It would also have been a ‘highly experimental beta’ if they removed all damage from every weapon, but I really shouldn’t have to explain to anyone why that’s a terrible “idea”.
If they have to be spoonfed even the simplest of things, how on earth can you expect them to figure out things which are even remotely complex.
Edit:
Ever seen threads discussing worthless super powers? For example: You are invisible, but only when things arent looking at you. This is essentially fatshark, except they suggest it (and implement it), with a straight face.
You are overreacting. Before you bash talents in the great context, you have first to answer the question:
That is the most important here. In this context, old version gave you 25 % power if out ammo. So an unlimited buff as it is tied to a state. However, you have to sacrifice your range play completely (outside of active skill) which is kinda dumb for a ranged career.
The new version is not tied to a state but has a proc trigger and has therefore a time limit. What does this mean gameplay-wise? This means if you have ample trust in your aim and you pick cross-bow with scrounger, then you can fire every 6-10 seconds a shot with 100 % crit chance. By doing this you will trigger the condition for necessary means and it the same move will recover ammonition by scrounger again. Which means you can play with a permanent upgrade of 15 % more attack Speed AND power while being able to take a shot every 6-10 seconds.
Sorry, but this is a huge improvement over the old talent. Only problem? It needs a minimum amount of skill. I don’t see the issue with a near permanent buff.
That’s a lot of mental gymnastics, to try making such a trash ‘addition’ ‘useful’. Or just take 20 damage increase(which also works with melee), which spreads to allies, without the risk of nullifying your entire class, or locking you into only being able to shoot every 6-10 second. Do you work at Fatshark? Seems plausible.
I have a talent suggestion for IB.
When gromril’s armor is active, you get 10% increase in power (!!), but whenever it’s on cooldown, you lose your weapons. Just don’t get damaged dummy, permanent 10% power, sick.
Not really, that is quite easy to play actually. Has also nice synergy with the new Duty’s Gift. It is better than Open Wounds as that only gives you 20 % damage (for an amount of time I can’t check at the moment and not stackable with similar effects) while Necessary Means gives you 15 % attack speed AND 15 % power which translate roughly in terms of dps a plus of 22,5 % and this doesn’t even account for cleave or stagger. Or the increased safety caused by faster attack speed. The first one is slightly more team orientated but it only really helps against bosses and maybe Chaos Warriors while the latter one helps you in every situation - especially against hordes - but it is slightly more egoistical.
It is just a bit harder to play, I don’t see the issue. But sure, keep shitting on improvement. That is the right way of life.
First one helps you and every one else against everything. Cleave a horde with rapier light crit? Everyone is debuffed. Shoot elite with rapier alt fire, which is guaranteed crit also debuffs. The other alternative potentially locks you out of your class every 6-10 seconds, and essentially gives your ranged weapon a 6-10 second cooldown. Yup, I am trully shitting on “improvement”. The original talent did nothing, and so does the new one.
Edit: oh and btw, just use hunter and prized bounty right now, and you have that talent plus more. Without the ridiculous risk you add with your incredible ‘build’. You should apply for a job over there.
I do not like that talent myself, but I just provided the feedback in the Saltzpyre thread without assuming devs are somehow incompetent you know 
They ask for feedback, they’ll take it into account, that’s the whole purpose of an early experimental build.
Hi KKND2,
Mass modifiers are a little difficult to explain in detail and I highly recommend downloading the bestiary mod as that mod gives exact numbers on what the modifiers do to each enemy.
Best way I can explain it is that Tank, Linesman, Heavy Linesman are hit mass modifiers that affect the cleave of your weapons against various unit types. A simple way to look at it is Linesman will effectively allow you to potentially cleave more fanatics and clan rats while Tank will allow you to potentially cleave more maulers. Cleave here refers to both stagger and damage cleave i.e the number of enemies you’ll stagger and damage per swing before you hit your target limit. It’s important to keep in mind that even though mass modifiers affect the cleave of your weapon they do not change your actual stagger or damage values on individual targets; only how many targets you can stagger/damage before your swing stops being effective.
I know this was a bit wordy but I hope this explanation helps and I’m happy to answer any and all questions to the best of my ability 
Assuming ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
If you don’t want to see then I can’t help you. The team effect from Open Wounds is meaningless against hordes as they die in one or two hits anyway with or without the talent while more attack speed is a definite increase in damage over time and is safer. For bosses and stronger elites it helps but so does the damage increase. And again the effect is stacking with similar effects in contrast to Open Wounds. There are just so many situations were Necessary Means is a better choice.
Also it is not the same as Hunter but it seems you operate on misconceptions. But yea, it seems I am unable to help you.
No it is not literally the same as hunter, but very comparable, with one being the clear winner.
I operate in reality, in contrast to delusions, so of course you cannot ‘help’ me. Just like how a schitzophrenic person wouldn’t be able to help me understand why pigs can fly.
Look, once again I apologize that I can’t help you to broaden your narrow sight of life.
If your realitiy demands that you need to insult and be hostile towards the developers of a computer game or random people on a gaming forum, then so be it.
Imagine condemning people for claims you yourself cannot abide my. Life must be easy, being so blissfully unaware.
Abide my? What do you mean? I can’t follow you. Do you mean abide by? That could make sense. But again, what specifically do you mean.
I did neither Insult you nor the developers and I am not hostile towards anyone here. Do you mean this one here:
How is it an insult? Did you complain about the talent change or did you not? I did try to help you, explain you where benefits of the new talents are, did even apologize that I wasn’t able to.
On the other hand you called the developers incompetent, their changes trash and implied that I appear delusional.
So yea, once again: I’m sorry if you have the feeling that you need to be so hostile towards other people in a gaming forum.
Please let’s try to be constructive with the feedback and stick to dedicated threads for it. It’ll help us! This thread is getting noisy and what we need right now is signal. So make feedback threads where needed and be sure to give support to feedback you agree with.
You can’t vote on an election that isn’t announced anywhere.
On a different note. I believe the changes to handmaiden lvl 30 talents are quite horrible, specially the rework on bladedancer.
Instantly revive people? sounds great on paper, but how often do you want people to go down? handmaiden can use her skill A LOT, so I can’t see anyone picking this, 90% of the time is a wasted talent. At least the bleeding talent was underused but offered some different playstyles, this is just a different version of stealth.
Also, I’d rather keep the crit on power from pain than the cleave, but this is more of a personal choice than anything.