[PC] Big Balance Beta - Available Now!

Nerfing most brokenly overpowered weapons is bad idea? What?
SD didn’t had bad sides at all DD had one bad side, that 10% crit was icing on cake of stupidly OP

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An understandable change, a bit much maybe with the 4 seconds but it will have a strong synergy with Enfeebling Flames. Close to what I had in mind too.

Do they damage though?

Not sure if this changes to much, would have to test. I think it is nice but for Cataclysm it probably doesnt make much of a difference.

3 % in what time interval? And from her max hp? Do Grims influence this. I would have liked another idea for this but I am not attached to the talent in a way.

Understandable, not sure if that will be enough to make it picked. But the stagger had to be increased.

Why? I really can’t get my head around this. The old Fuel to the Fire was so good. It did appropriate damage and good stagger. I guess it has to do with the change to Flame Wave so that it is a choice between stagger or damage. Now Fuel to the Fire is the melee talent, have to check how high the damage is. But I will miss the ranged buff and the utility of the talent. I would wish for this change to be reverted.

As for the weapon changes … ufff. They did go through nearly unfiltered. Several weapons got a dps increase of 20 -30 % !! That is insane.

Why does Saltzpyre’s Flail get 30 % more heavy damage? For a repeatable charged attack which is horizontal and super-easy to headshot with? With one career which has +30 % power anyway and another career which has +50 % headshot damage? This thing will shred hordes and elites alike now O.o
Also as you have said yourself, Axe&Falchion was already among the highest picks, why make it better? The weapon has been picked regularly by Bounty Hunters, one of the weakest melee classes in the game. The weapon has 0! issues with survivability. From a gameplay perspective it makes zero sense to improve the dodge values. At least make that damned thing slower by 10 %.
Same for Billhook, it still has insane crowd control and dps. The dodge count change will not make a difference in how often this weapon will be picked.
For Falchion I would have preferred if you look into bleed damage since it is a fast slashing weapons similar to Dual Daggers. It will be more competitive now, but it is a uninspired change.

Drakefire Pistols didnt need change as well. The overcharge for the shotgun blast was already rather tame and you could easily vent during hordes. Also for Ironbreaker the dodge values shouldn’t be so high.

Why no change to the Crossbow and the Brace of Pistols? Ranged weapons can be roughly separated into Sniping weapons and in Run and Gun weapons. Both weapons cover both niches and are therefore to strong. Let the damage profiles as they are but reduce their accuracy. Crossbow should have similar aim while running as the handgun and not be able to headshot everything left and right. Brace of Pistols should also have less accuracy so that you cant snipe enemies 50 m away.

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I haven’t playtested yet, but I immediatly wanted to add smth. that I always thought would be a good addition to the 1H Mace and 1H Sword. And that is a push on the Weapon Special. I mean it’s not utilized anyways, the animation can be taken from the push you do when carrying barells or smth. and it would add a unique playstyle if you could use it while light attacking. It would make sense aswell because no one fights just using 1 arm all day… well except you only have one arm.

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Ranger Vet built for attack speed is almost obscene.

Great Axe + A.Speed, Swift Slaying and Crit Chance
Pver vs Skaven + Attack Speed
Ale
Foe Feller
plus Smoke speed buff

Makes it comical how fast he can go. I mean I really chewed through a horde with GREAT AXE because it goes so fast and also made it possible to spam LMB on CW and dodge around to take him down without taking forever > especially with the 20% crit chance megabuff on the G.Axe. It’s actually better to spam Light Attacks for the 20% crit chance and keep Swift Slaying up on top of any other speed buffs to take out armour. Spam LMB in your smoke with the buff after swigging ale - there’s no need for anything else as your sheer speed makes it completely un-necessary to slow down and use heavy swings. This removes skilled play as there’s no need to really block or dodge as everything is dead or staggered. I lso had THP coming out of my ears. Grimnir himself knows how funny it’ll be with dual hammers.

There is another whole thread about how attack speed is the go-to trait as it simply keeps you safer (hence everyone using Swift Slaying). But RV with Great Axe Crit Chance removes the need for anything other than LMB spam and the odd dodge. G.Axe used to be just too risky for RV, now it’s gone completely the other way, anti armour with the sheer speed to wipe out hordes fast. Is linesman a buff to the push too? Cos that’s just silly.

As for the ale, I think the pickup hit box might be a bit bigger if possible, and I think there might be a bug where if you swig it at the bottom of a ladder, hop on before the animation stops you get another full bottle when you get to the top. I’ll try and dupe before I post in bugs though.

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I recognize some of these changes as things that were rolled back or lessened in the mod itself. I still plan on playing the beta, but for many of the weapons I already know what my opinion will be. Hope to make a post on it when I get home :]

Do you mean the bash (heavy 1) comes faster? This is valid for every shield or Axe and Shield only?

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I think only the non-shield bash heavy attacks.

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I was hoping someone like you would show up in the thread. I made an account just to post this response.

It’s very easy to see something or read a statement and agree with the majority of the gist. I’m guilty of this all the time. While I’m thrilled that you guys are clearly more open to community input when it comes to balance, I can’t help but feel like you didn’t try and develop your own ideas and instead took the easy route, indirectly getting a sizable portion of a balance patch effectively outsourced. This is a bit concerning, considering the game has been in almost the same balance state for what, ten months now? I hate to ask but what have you guys been doing? Yes you released three maps and a career but that’s very much separate from dealing the game balance. It’s been so long that change for the sake of change is welcome and I’m glad that at least that’s happening but this just strikes me as a bit lazy.

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Weapon changes mostly look good. Disappointed to not see any bugfixes for the drakegun/flamestorm. Also got my fingers crossed for some additional usability improvements for beam staff.

Talent changes look like a mixed bag. Very much not enamored with the idea of RV losing some of his item based utility to become the new mercenary. Would much rather have seen the former doubled down on instead. Praying to Ranald that some pyro & slayer talent changes are in the pipeline as well.

P.S. Grudgeraker buff when?

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It’s damn fast I think, fast enough to reach the max to press F before it blows (if you have the health). I haven’t seen what happens if you don’t have enough health to take you to the Press F zone though, and didn’t see it happen when I had a grim.

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Pwease ma’am, may i have some cleave on crowbill? just a bit of love for the crowbill

The crowbiww is meant to be a singwe-tawget weapon, giving it more cweave wouwdn’t fit the weapon.

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What we did was essentially just feedback but instead of just posting text on the forums we decided to actually implement our feedback into a mod to demonstrate it in gameplay rather than just talking about it.

The only real difference here is that instead of there merely being a feedback thread we also had code and gameplay footage and community playtesting to accompany our feedback. I don’t think what’s happened here is any different from Fatshark implementing any given community feedback into the game (which is kinda the whole point of feedback and these betas) it’s just our feedback was more involved and came with tangible demonstrations/implementation of our suggestions/feedback.

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Well holy cow that is a lot of changes and most of them by just looking at them look promising.
The only one i really disagree just by reading it out loud is the executioner one.
I totally understand it needs some tuning but to me it looks like we are targeting parts that really make no difference for the career that abuses it the most.
Making the animation slower or i’d use the term clunkier here will just make it so that it will be primarily a mercenary weapon and absolutely nothing about its power really changes other than footknight/huntsman/GK will probably use something else instead.

Rest of the bigger ones like talents i really have to try before i say anything but 95 % of the stuff here looks promising.

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I’d like Fuel for the Fire back please, it was just a much much better talent.

While the Flame Aura seems quite nice, it’s a poor mans BW Kaboom really. Although it moves with you it really only shows any value when it’s coupled with Enfeebling Flames, and even then I didn’t feel like it made a big difference. It needs to REALLY hurt the baddies, even if it had a bigger debuff(such as a movement debuff)

My own personal opinion, but the FX and flames were just too bright and pervasive, saturating too much of what goes on (I know melee mains spend half their life blind by Sienna FF, but having it always burning in the circle is a bit much).

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Really appreciate the BBB, lots of promising changes. :+1:
Some weapons, talents and values need some fine tuning and tweaks along the way of the beta, sure.
Also, please don’t hesitate to swing the nerf bat where needed - I realize that nerfs are not very popular with the community, but I’m a bit concerned that the other approach (buffing every underperforming weapon or talent) will make things too easy overall.
Thanks to FS and the modding team.

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Created an account just to comment on this.

I actually kinda agree with Argonaut14 on this entire topic.

This doesn’t really feel like a balance at all, pretty much all the ‘weak’ (unpicked) weapons just get a huge damage increase, and there are there are just a few nerfs. There should always be a reason to pick a weapon over another weapon tbh. The talents also feel way too overpowered actually. It just feels more like a increase in power for everyone and making the game easier than an actual balance.

I get this feeling from just reading the notes, and I am obviously going to play the beta, but for now this feels like a big no from me.

I also would rather you guys focused on the actual balancing of finales for maps than this weapon overhaul.

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In fairness a lot of people for a long time have been asking for overhauls to weapon balance, events, beastmen etc. etc. pretty much every aspect of the game more or less

just because they’ve done this doesn’t mean they won’t work on the rest later and it’s not like they can’t multitask either

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Ah so you’re one of the mod authors. Fantastic work! I wasn’t aware of the history and only gave the mod a spin briefly when it first came out.

Like I said, my concern isn’t with the changes themselves since the game is so stale anything is welcome, but rather that even if the final version of the balance update might have been similar to what you guys created, FS still sat on their hands for almost a year without a peep about potential balance changes. It just irks me that there wasn’t even really an attempt made by them at any point between WoM and now.

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Playd my boi Kruber FK with Greatsword.

Hero time is up far too much. I think playing with bots where Sienna got downed by a CW - charged in - then Vicky Saltz gets jumped by assassin - charge in - then Bardin gets leeched - charge in - maybe three charges in under 20 seconds.

It is FANTASTIC being able to charge through everything to rescue someone though and that absolutely has to stay. A limit on how often it can trigger is all it needs to stop you zipping around if two people get leeched or something.

That’s without the usual recharge of Kruber’s Charge which is damn low.

The attacks swing of the Light on Greatsword is too fast coupled with Swift Slaying and makes hordes laughable although turning it down too much could make heavy swings the go-to again, and the movement buff is massively overpowered. I mean really.

As a general comment, I’m usually a 30-50% completion player soloing at Legend with bots. I’ve played maybe six or seven games with various builds I would never use on classes I don’t play often and have a 100% completion rate at Legend this evening. Completely unheard of for me, and a bit boring too.

Some players might like being able to cruise the difficulty enjoying a power fantasy of being godlike, but I’d rather savour my hard fought battles with clutches and excitement.

My 30% victory rate in Live meant every success was hard earned and I savoured every moment of the sweet victory. 100% success rate makes Legend trivial and dull. Nerf the living t1ts out of this BBB please.

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