What is an overperforming build?
It’s a build that does way too much, even on harder difficulties, and which trivializes parts of the game. It goes beyond doing what it needs to and ends up removing challenge, or just stops giving other players on the team something to kill.
Do you just want everything nerfed into the ground?
No, I’d like the ‘strong’ builds to be at the same level as the other things that are still great.
Aren’t these just DPS doing their job?
Yes, but they’re doing it way better than other builds in their arsenal. They could easily be nerfed and still do their job.
What makes you the expert?
Thousands of hours, testing builds, talking to people about those builds, feeling the difference between playing one of these builds compared to the rest of their kit. People may disagree and also may have their own suggestions.
Are you trying to remove the uniqueness of those Careers?
No. They still keep that with their other Weapons, so it wouldn’t leave by changing these specific builds.
Can you give an example of where you want the baseline balance to be?
One example of an overperformer is Hagbane on WS. Compare this to Longbow, which varies in usefulness, but even on the best players, still doesn’t reach the same level of damage output as Hagbane. That’s where I want the baseline balance to be.
This means we’re not buffing things to match Hagbane levels of damage, but bringing those strong builds down to the level that they’re still good at their job, but not too strong.
What about buffs?
I’ve argued for buffs to many things, some of which are now included in the game via the Weapon Balance Mod. E.g. some of the changes to Bardin’s Greataxe. This is maybe not the thread for that.
What is your over all goal with this thread?
To shine a light on the balance disparity between some of the better and overperforming builds compared to the rest of the characters kits. These overperformers create a problem, as the game is co-op, and they’re doing too much, which can suck the fun away from other players.
It can also cause people to want to balance things up instead of to the middle ground, which leads to massive power creep.
Hopefully I can make the baseline, which still has some balance variance within, clear.
Also to explain what we’ve been ‘crusading’ for. As the argument I keep seeing from people is that we just ‘hate shade’, or ‘want everything to be damage sponges on Cata’. This is far from true. Removing the high levels of build disparity, and making the balance feel more well-rounded is the goal.
All of this is open to suggestion. The example builds aren’t perfect, and don’t need to be. They’re just basic example of what causes the strength of the builds.
The overperforming builds:
Shade: SnD/DD Headshot build
Too versatile in damage. Synergizes too well with Assassin, and running AS/Crit on fast Weapons. Deals way more over all damage than any of her other builds.
I’d also add that the recent Cloak of Mist buff improved this build.
Unlimited spam, with a decent fire rate and long range, compared to shotguns which do the same job. Hunter allows you to reach 40% Power vs everything, Deathly Dissipation and Bonded Flame allow you to stay at high THP, and gives ridiculous freecasting, where you can melt Hordes for free. It’s also really good vs Bosses.
Zealot: A+F, Billhook, with BoP and gaining Ranged Power from his Passives
Way too versatile. Killing power combined with tankiness makes it have too much uptime on enemies with the offensive stats he has. Ranged Weapons not needing Power, and being able to reach 37.5% with Crit + Crit Power (interchangeable if you want to take Smiter).
Waystalker: Hagbane spam.
Unlimited spam, with a decent fire rate and long range, compared to shotguns which do the same job. The ammo you can maintain while spamming so much AoE damage and Stagger make it absurd. This build hasn’t really stopped being OP since launch. It’s good against every enemy except Armoured, which isn’t a problem if you just spam headshots anyway, because you won’t lose ammo.
WHC: Left click spamming with Rapier.
Build: Crit + AS or Block Cost + Crit on the Rapier.
It’s too easy to do insane amounts of damage, and you spam lights against every Man-Sized enemy.
Not sure if much can be done about this one. I’d much rather see his Heavy Attacks become more accurate and be the main source of him scoring these kills, but the inherent headshot mechanic will always be abusable by such a fast Weapon.
WS: BBB Swiftbow changes
Shade: BBB Cloak of Mist CDR build & Hag Spam with Bloodfletcher
Slayer: DK double Hammer build
Shade: Old CDR build
Sienna: Wigglemancer build
BH: Old Volley Crossbow build, and Melee kill = Crit
BW: Stacking DoT bug fixed
BH: Double-Shotted. While BH himself isn’t too broken anymore, this Talent can be absurd vs Lords and Bosses alike.
BW: Flamethrower can sometimes end up doing too much damage.
BBB Huntsman: It’s still being tweaked, so I won’t go into detail.
In conclusion, I don’t want to see anything nerfed into the ground. Just leveled off with the rest of their kit to remove the huge balance disparity.