Overhaul of Psyker

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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I’m going to try engaging in this topic seriously again, reading the OP:

  1. Why is removing tools from the Psyker important? What do you gain from it? Sure, fire staff isn’t exactly original, but the it still functions differently from the Flamer on a class with different passives and blessings for that flamethrower. Why remove access to infantry lasguns, autoguns, or shotguns? Is it because the tools are too powerful on Psyker, or do you simply not like the fact that a wizard has access to an assault rifle?
  2. Why do you want to lock your spells to both a Blitz and a weapon you may not even be using? What benefits do you gain from using a gun while pathing into parts of the tree that alter the staff spells? The way you phrased it, you want a majority of the tree to be related to spells. How will spell choice on the Staff be determined? Will there be nodes you pick on the tree, or is each node going to have an “element”, and whichever “element” you have the most of is what the staff does?
  3. What’s wrong with doing something similar to a different class? A Zealot can also focus on shooting enemies, but you don’t seem to be complaining about that - a Veteran can also be focused on melee frontlining, but you don’t seem to be complaining about that - so what’s the issue with a Psyker deciding to drop the staff and shooting and chopping?
  4. What is this overhaul even trying to accomplish? Really ask yourself this. What does this overhaul do to make Psyker more interesting than it already is? If I wanted to mix and match all this stuff, why shouldn’t I just go play Path of Exile instead?

The main overall problem I see with this post as a whole is that you want to remove tools the Psyker has for… reasons that don’t seem to go anywhere beyond “I don’t like that the space wizard can do this”. None of the “reasons” you have provided in this thread in favor of this overhaul make sense for this argument specifically, lore, balance, or fun-wise.

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62

I’ll reply in full later, but I am not removing tools, I would like something a little more unique.

I want the gun play to be a more interesting rather than just a vet with a better keystone and pop BB, with zero peril cost.

But as I say, I’ll respond in full later when I’m not on my phone.

You to explain what tools am I removing, as I am not removing anything, in fact, ibam asking for more.

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This is literally the definition of removing something from Psyker. Weapons are as much a part of the potential Psyker toolkit as any other, so by removing access to some weapon, you are removing that tool.

There are better ways to make gunplay more interesting than just taking something away. I will agree with you that Scrier’s Gaze is not exactly the most interesting thing you can do, but you could also do something like a more powerful aim assist, wall penetration, explosive headshot, or some kind of psychic ricochet.

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But IMO, I feel the Vet should have the biggest number of ranged options, but they don’t. Pskers have more ranged options (15) than the vets (14).

Not only that, Psykers can out perform vets with weapons, psykers can litteraly outgun the gunners.

Why the F do psykers have more ranged options than a vet. Surely the vet should have the biggest ranged pool in teh game? No?

People cry how unbalanced this game is, how poor the vet is compared to other classes, or how powerful the zealot.

But as soon as try to start to address the problem, people strat crying that you are taking something away. Yes, sometimes, that is best the option.

It’s the absolute prime of example, of crying for change, then when change comes along, cry that it’s changed.

Yes, the Psyker should lose a lot of the guns IMO, but it should make up for it, elsewhere, like more in depth psykic based tree, that sllows to create a wide array of builds ideas.

And the remaining gun they do have left to play with, make them really unique, so in no way are playing a glorified vet, and peeing all over that class.

Thus allow the Vet to excell in versatility and give them 1 thing they have over the rest at least.

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Sure, in terms of raw amount of options you have, Psykers technically have more - but you’re leaving out the fact that four of those options are staves, leaving 11 guns, and Veterans get access to the heavier weaponry (Bolter, Plasma Gun, Helbore (even though that one sucks)).

I saw before you edited this post that you mentioned that the Psyker was using “weapons designed for Veteran” - this is ignoring the fact that these weapons are designed to be universal options for all human classes. You don’t even get your first staff as Psyker until level 5, you start out with an IAG. Nobody gets their class-specific unlocks until they’re about halfway through leveling.

I still think gun wizard is a cool idea that you can explore without just gutting half your available weapon pool and leaving the Psyker with less ranged options than Ogryn.

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66

But it’s not just different, it’s insanely OP, procs a million crits that leads to almost range immunity, insane toughness regen, and so much more.

Like the DS, the game would be better if it was removed. It just unbalances everything so much.

It’s a win button.

So I would rather see it replaced with something that is far more interesting, that is balanced, and adds more to the game than a win button.

What do you mean?

The staff and blitz’s will be completely seperate. So what do you mean by locked?

I am not saying that you can’t do something similar. I have no problem with the vet and Zealot doing melee, but at least try and make them unique and avoid stepping on each other toes.

It’s not what they do, but the way that they do it.

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Yeah, poor Zealot needs all grenades accessible regardless of what top tree path he takes for starters, and he needs other adjustments - but I’m not a Zealot expert I’m a Psyker main.

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I feel the Melee Psyker is way better than both the Vet and Zealot in standard game play.

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To be more specific, I do understand the Blitz and the weapon spells are separate, but the point I was trying to make is that the spells for the staff being determined by the tree and not by the type of staff it is can be more restrictive than you think it is.

There’s quite a bit of versatility in the options you’re presented. The classical Palpatine build uses Smite for crowd control and Electro Staff for single target, but you could also substitute Smite with Assail for something less reliable, but more damaging and able to pick off targets at longer ranges. Or the Voidstrike staff could use Braincrush for the enemies hiding behind some particularly rough cover. The fact that the tree and the weapon are not dependent on each other, but can still interact, means that you have a lot more freedom with how you can tinker up a build, even if that build might suck.

The weapon is overpowered, sure. I don’t think removing it entirely is going to make anybody happy, nor does it really solve the problem. You moreso want to force the weapon closer to the niche it’s supposed to fill instead of it being a does-it-all thing, which is how it works right now. For my money, firestaff should have a bigger damage penalty vs. Maniacs and Carapace to make dealing with those guys harder.

Again, you can do this without effectively just removing gun psyker entirely the way you describe it in the OP. There are better options that can preserve the fun of Just Shooting Them.

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It’s a total rush, been addicted to Tac Axe Crit build for a minute now.

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Ranged options are ranged options, whatever way you paint it.

Sorry for editing it, to make my feelings clearer on the matter.

As for the level stuff. So what? You get to level 30 in no time and all your option are available to you.

I think a gun wizard is a good idea, but the current version is just a glorified vet, that has BB, once every 15sec, with far better damage buffs.

I am not saying that my idea should be exactly as I said it, just pointing out the fact that the options Psyker should be more limited than the vet.

Not to mention that ever fecking shot at the moment is considered psykic, then it needs to have a peril cost, and big one, so you can spam it, and make it op.

So I have no idea, why you think I am gutting it.

And with the path, you can flavour your gun buff in different ways. And super cool to your shot, damaging and slightly slowing, add a just tad of brittle too… Or mind, when the targets if he survives the shot, has nightmarish visions, destroying his aim and focus or wildly swinging at invisible demons for a few seconds.

See gun play that really fits a Psyker, with a bit of flavour.

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That’s the point you are missing.

the first 3 nodes in the tre would be your chose element or what ever.

So rather than just having assail, BB, and smite. You would have Damage, Defence, Control, Buff, Debuff, or whatever three are chosen.

Each one, would have different effect depending on the path you chose. So now, you 9 differnt type of blitz’s because each blitz would have a different flavours depending on your path.

Yeah, its a lot more effort, but f*ck it, if you gonna do something, do it properly, so players can get seriously creative, and keeping working on the balance to to stop pwer creep and OP BS.

The same goes for abilities. You keep sheild, but now when you pick it, you got an Ice Shield, or an area of mind f*ck, or anything else.

Key stones, could remain the same, or change them something else.

I am not saying that my idea is the best, I just want to get creative minds thinking about how to make the Psyker more interesting.

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This would be convenient. However, the problem is not here.
It is in IoD. too strong. So strong that it defines 90% of the builds.
And Martyr’s purpose not an alternative. (totally useless)

Reminder: the only other CDR node is Pious Pious Cut Throat that is a CDR linked to backstab attacks. Best gameplay with such CDR is obviously dagger MK III + shroudfield. However, this node works with anything if you kill by backstab an enemy, it reduces by 25% the cooldown.
Let’s be realist. Will you take that if you use a thunderhammer? no. In fact, except with assassin gameplay (combat blade mainly), you should always go for IoD.

Sidenote: I won’t talk about DS. I don’t play it, I like the weapon by a lot, but I hate that this weapon is overpowered. I want to play with DS, but I cannot play with something that make me feel that I cheat.

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Can you pm me that build?, I would love to try it.

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Sure thing, Axe Maniac. Let me know how it goes for you

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76

DS needs weakening, Zealot Through Wounds needs weakening, Plasma Cannon needs weakening, Smite needs weakening, Prayer needs weakening. Is there anything that doesn’t need weakening?

No, seriously time after time X needs to be weakened, don’t you get tired of it? This is an unpopular opinion, but maybe instead of weakening things that you think are broken or strong, you should strengthen other things so that players look and think that thing/ability X is no worse and play with it?

Well really enough, you want to weaken Psyker - well just remove all available weapons and talent tree from him, perfect. The same can be done with other classes, you care about balance in a PvE game, can we imagine for a second that players should have fun in a PvE game? Can we imagine for a moment that a player should feel that by the endgame he becomes strong not through personal skill, but through access to powerful abilities and weapons? By the way, even in PvP players will find something broken and a lot of people play on it.

Speaking of your favorite Smite - if he was on the business card of the first season of Havoc, now he is there (personally in my games) almost does not appear, and somehow the developers specifically did not work with him, and how so, maybe the players themselves decided to abandon it (and do not talk about the modifier with antistan)?

My opinion on DS - adding him to the other classes was a mistake, he should have stayed with Psyker. BB against Assail and Smite looks weak and situational (depends more on the team), something interesting should be done with him (oh how lucky that Mortis has already ready solutions).

And before you start palaemics about weakening everything and anything, you better start the same hysteria about the NEW VETERAN WEAPONS promised by Sharks. And maybe everyone forgot, but when the Crafting System came out they promised to redesign amulets, and where? Where is it. Stop asking them to make things you need, demand they make things they promised.

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And I suppose you do the same with all the staves’s current ability ?

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Oh, what like the new shotgun, that unloaded into a horde and killed nothing.

Yeah, devastating.

Yay! Power creep and making enemies even more pointless.

And to make the game harder, make havoc even more stupid than it already is.

And making damnation for beginners.

This not what I am saying at all.

I think you should go back and read what I have said else where.

How is having 9 variations of blitz, rather than 3, giving a psyker less options for example.

Please, explain to the world how 9, is less than 3?

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At minimum I would replace staves as is. I.e keep staves as like the weapon they are now, but with a different variety effects.

Make them more unique. Void blast and Strike are too similar and would get ride of one at least.

So I would keep one of blast or strike, and electrokenetic. Inferno would go too as it is just OP, like DS.

I would make them like inferno, where the primary is in the same style the secondary attack.

Rather than like the other three that all have the same primary.

I would create blessings unique to each to stay, whilst sharing others. The unique blessing could change what the staves do to a small extent, bringing in a bit more of choice if it was possible and feasible. As you don’t want to too much variation, as it would.

But on the whole staves would be pretty much the same, just a different variety, but with more unique blessings.

But I am sure their as a happy medium, where all classes cam have more choice in builds and uniqueness

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Emperor Above, I hate this argument. Fun for me comes through challenge and variety in the way I can approach a problem. You know how this can be achieved? BALANCE.

The more viable options there are, the more fun I can have playing a bigger variety of builds. You want those options to be strong enough to conquer endgame content, but not strong enough to trivialize it. This is called BALANCE.

Darktide’s BALANCE is actually pretty good, for the most part - a lot of the weapons you can use are serviceable. There are only a few standouts that are either way too good or way too weak, and these need to be tuned.

Fun fact: You can complain about both because game development is about adding new things and fixing old things.

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