Opinions on hero balance

I played about 7 or so games with my friends. We always had 3/4 people so we had better communication than randoms. I have about 400hrs in the game but my friends all have 50 or less, so our party wasn’t exactly hardened veterans.

So right off the bat I want to mention Handmaiden. When we played the rats against a handmaiden, it felt nearly impossible to stop her if she knows what she’s doing. It’d always be the ones running shield & spear.

The main culprit imo is her speed. No special can keep up with her except the gutter runner - if you don’t happen to get a gutter runner there’s very little you can do, and hypothetically, you could just kill gutter runners until the pactsworn don’t have one. Even if you use the catch-up mechanic you lose an immense amount of time.
This is a combination of speed-techs and her career ability. Also, she has a shield.

The second thing is that rushing is probably the single best strategy to use as the heroes. Mostly, rushing in a group. And no career can rush better or speed up their team better (via super-fast revives or taking out off-road objectives by herself) than handmaiden kerillian. Frankly it felt like there was nothing we could do when a group of coordinated heroes that stick together and rush hard shows up. When we played that way (it was hard with inexperienced players but it happened now and then), we tended to win dominantly.

I see Grail Knight a LOT, which isn’t surprising considering his popularity in general, but it’s a bit frustrating considering he can block warpfire and ratling as well as outrange packmaster with melee, and obliterate the troll. Gas globe does very little damage to him if he just runs through the gas, considering grail knight’s immense health and speed. Gutter runner feels like his only weakness, much like handmaiden. As for speed, he’s also one of the fastest careers in the game between movement techs and his innate speed, which as abovementioned I feel is the strongest playstyle as heroes.

I see a lot of Warrior Priest comments here but I won’t make my own remarks for two reasons. FIrst, WP is my main, and I’d feel too biased. Second, I stopped playing WP very fast because I wanted to try out ranged-capable characters to back up the Grail Knight i played with. I will mention the one time I played him, the pactsworn could NOT deal consistent damage to me. I almost always above 50% hp. Much like grail knight, i feel like his weakness is gutter runners.

I felt ranged characters were sort of mandatory, which is to be expected. Handguns and crossbows/longbows sort of suck when they don’t 1-hit, but on characters that do (eg ranger veteran) they’re fantastic. Multi-shot weapons, however, are far more reliable as they don’t need to headshot and they can kill ratlings/warpfire throwers while they’re firing.

Lastly, I felt Sienna (at least without Soulstealer Staff) was extremely weak and underplayed. The fact that all of her non-soulstealer ranged attacks have travel time or need you to keep your cursor on the special for a long time means she’s quite difficult at keeping up with the now-agile side-strafing specials. None of my group touched Sienna and any sienna we found was considered low-threat.

Adding on with edits:

One thing that I forgot to mention is the most “bs” defeat we had. We opened the barn and a bunch of bestigors spawned right in front of us. I swear that didnt happen the first time. Anyway that surprise immediately cost us the match. Im 99% sure it didnt happen to our opponents when they did the same barn part afterwards. Will have to play more to see if it can be recreated or if it was a very unlikely thing.

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So right off the bat I want to mention Handmaiden . When we played the rats against a handmaiden, it felt nearly impossible to stop her if she knows what she’s doing. It’d always be the ones running shield & spear.

Personally I think the easiest way to resolve that is to tune the chances so that the pact-sworn always have 1 disabler or 2 available, but I don’t think it’s necessary, most people will probably tell you to have the foresight to predict an attempt at a rush and choose a hunter (In fact most of my losses to rushers was when people just don’t notice them or we have 2 gas rats and 2 more flame/gun rats which get dashed through)

Also, for the WP and GK I found them okay, the nerf was good to WP and GK is still manageable, you just target their allies so they have to waste valuable time getting within melee range, you don’t try to down a tank first afterall

SIenna is either barely used or absolutely obliterates the enemy team idk

Overall, largely, I feel like there is a lot of good balance, and rushes are predictable and can get punished severely, the biggest issue is a lack of MMR, I simply, cannot compete with players who have more hours in this game than I do in my college education, or vice versa my team winning while the enemy team gets 0 points, the most fun I had was when we played vs people on-par with me (losing by 20 points not 200)

Personally I think the easiest way to resolve that is to tune the chances so that the pact-sworn always have 1 disabler or 2 available, but I don’t think it’s necessary, most people will probably tell you to have the foresight to predict an attempt at a rush and choose a hunter (In fact most of my losses to rushers was when people just don’t notice them or we have 2 gas rats and 2 more flame/gun rats which get dashed through)

I’m not going to tell the devs how I think they should fix it, just what my group and I felt when playing the game. I dont know what their vision of the game is so giving them solutions is sort of pointless.

However Im kind of confused by the “predict a rush” comment. Not sure how you’re meant to predict that 10-20 seconds in advance. Sounds like guessing, which isn’t predicting.

Anyway, Im not talking about single players rushing but whole team rushes being super strong. It felt like there was nothing we could do when the heroes stick together.
We never lost when we rushed as a group on the hero side; only when we gave the rats time or when we split the party.

I guess my issue with Handmaiden is a lack of reactability: once she decides to run and youre behind her, theres very little we could actually respond with. It was just kind of frustrating.
I think the issue might not be handmaiden herself but the catch up system, which feels cumbersone. Ill have to persuade my group to play more to test but theyre pretty annoyed with the cheese and rushes right now.

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for a game mode about making the most of your health and the scarces ressource, where you make point by how far you and your teammates can go, Handmaiden and Waystalker hability to provide infinite amount of health is a trash experience.

I know i will talk about L4D, but, the only things that give people health or temporary health are items you founds all over the game, not directly by character.

Playing versus Handmaiden player that know what they are doing SUCK HARD. Even if we try to focus her, then, the rest of her team will do everythings to protect her, and it will be HARD to just make her fall.

And when we do it, well, we hard focus ONE player so hard, that she will not have the pleasure to just play…

She is a high priority target that must DIE, so when we got troll, we hard focus her and kill her before her comrade can do anythings, and if we do not do that, we cannot win.

She must be nerfed, like, give to player more down (they can be put down more before being in gray state) and give far less HP, and at a time, even if you have the HP, you still die if your are put down 4 time in a row without healing for exemple.

And the Waystalker one, she give temporary HP to her teamate for exemple, not real one. She can sustain the one in Gray state for longer, but not give real one.

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Sienna can be good as BW. The double fire walk allows you to catch up with specials and stagger them (+ staggering the boss) as well as rez teammates and she has the best bolt staff bolt which also charges fast so long as you haven’t used spells and the sparks are good in a pinch at medium range if you cannot aim the bolt due to incoming fire. The temp hp gain from the fire sword is the best in the game.