One-Handed Axes - Lacking Something

The One-Hand Axe has fallen behind lately and in higher difficulties no longer holds its own with just good armour damage and decent
mobility.

Three main problems with 1h Axe

  1. It doesn’t kill elites significantly faster than other weapons.
    Berserkers and Shields are still tough to grind through with an axe and mixed hordes cannot be stalled with just pushes.
    A strong head multiplier can give it the power to quickly pick off medium units.

  2. Horde clear is atrocious
    Axe never was intended to be a horde blender but it can still be made useful. A long time ago a skilled player could kill two horde units with double headshots but now needs stat investment to kill a single fanatic.
    Improving the damage cleave and second target damage profile would help it kill hordes while keeping stagger control tame

  3. Armour damage is merely ok.
    There has been a push to make the axe heavy attack the choice for armoured foes despite other weapons also bringing very similar damage. Elf Sword and Falchion now have heavies matching Axe while keeping the capacity for Horde control.
    The Axe Light should be the consistent anti-armour with heavy being a strong alpha damage hitter.

10 Likes

I think this weapon got buffed with too much attack speed and doesn’t need more. When Swift Slaying picks up the weapon moves faster than the 3rd person animation (was watching a Zealot do his thing). It almost feels like using a single target sword, now, because of its speed.

I do like the stronger heavies!

1 Like

The difference in the heavies is that 1H axe heavies do considerably more Super Armor damage. Roughly 26% more, in fact.

2 Likes

I’d suggest removing the arbitrary movement slow while attacking, feels quite out of place on a 1 hander especially the elven axe.

Letting the axe cleave and do good damage to 2 horde units per light swing seems like a good idea, should make it high dps but high risk against hordes. Could experiment with it being able to hit 2 elites but that would probably be a little bit too OP as heck most notably on slayer.

1 Like

I think that’d be pretty notable, yes

Historically speaking, it seems the standard answer that has been used to fix most weapons with similar problems to 1h axe (ie having purely single-target, risky light attack chains) has been to convert one of the attacks to a lower damage attack with more cleave. For example:

  • The 2h hammer push attack now having cleave
  • The 2h axe push attack being given cleave forever ago, and now being given more cleave
  • Dual Daggers being given extra cleave on their light attacks many patches ago

And still even more top-tier weapons have always had the ability to do devastating single-target attack chains, while having other attack chains that cleave as well (SnD, AnF, Billhook, Exe sword, glaive, various hammers, etc).

So if 1h axe were to get any additional cleave, it would probably fit best with most vermintide trends that the 3rd light attack (a sweeping, horizontal animation already) would be given additional cleave at the cost of a damage reduction. I enjoy the concept of the 1h axe, and I’m not sure if a change like this would mess up its identity, but as a Saltzpyre player I currently only use the weapon on Zealot to begin with because in its current state, hit-trading with groups of enemies during cata hordes is just a fact of life.

5 Likes

Looks like they went the opposite direction…

We may never fully understand

1 Like

i totaly agree with Boz !
its overall a joke that attacks with a 1h axe slows you (specialy elven axe wich have no extra crit chance)
you realy should remove this completely from the elven 1h axe it takes all the fun to pick this weapon with the elf! or maybe buff the elven axe with attack speed or with the same extra crit chance like the other 1h axe! but i personlly prefer to remove this stupid movement slow completely from the elven axe…

90% of your time in-game is spent fighting hordes. The single-target-bad-aoe niche simply does not exist, and any weapons that fill it will always suffer.

The sole exception is Sienna, who can the weaknesses of such a weapon (crowbill) with her incredible AOE ranged weapons.

4 Likes

1h axe is fine

Bardin has access to numerous tools to offset the lack of cleave

Saltzpyre is a little worse for wear but Zealot can enable it to great effect. WHC can also get decent mileage with it even if it’s no billhook

Elf axe doesn’t really have a place imo considering daggers exist but bleed handmaiden and hangbane waystalker can enable it for sure

1 Like

Could not agree more, The niche existed in VT1 were hordes were much less numerous so you could get away with not having alot of cleave. But on VT2 you have elites and Armour mixed into much denser hordes single target dps weapons with no effective way to counter such hordes will always be far inferior. The best the could do is completely change how the axe works or have it cleave alot more but without the damage after the first 2 or 3 targets. if it could at least cleave and stagger more per swing it would actually be viable. Until such changes are made it will be a no pick on higher difficulties.

4 Likes

Elven axe is flashy, attacks really fast.

No reach, no cleave, low push radius.
Foundmyself constantly getting hit when using it.

Not sure which THP you’re supposed to run with this.

2 Likes

But why would you use it over their other choices which are better in 98% of situations?

Bardin has dual hammers, 1h hammer and 2h hammer which do everything the 1h axe can without its heavy downsides.

Saltz on any class has rapier, axe and falc even the greatsword is better there is no reason to pick the 1h axe over the other choices.

Elf has daggers s&d, spear and glaive it is far from fine.

Maybe it works “fine” in champion and below but in legend and especially cata its a handicap compared to every other weapon.

3 Likes

If hagstalker/Bleedmaiden can enable, why pick this weapon over any other?

There isn’t anything really special about it.

In the mod, the very high crit chance made it really fun, even though it solved none of the underlying issues.

Man I swear 1h axe Zealot is the most fun you can have with Zealot. I wish it had even less move slowdown on light attack but otherwise agreed, feels fine to me.

Can’t really comment on elgi axe, barely play Kerills but have had fun with it here and there on HM. Biggest stand out issue to me is on Shade. Why has it got an absolute trash infiltrate modifier? It makes no sense to me. Besides fixing that, I dunno what else you’d do to it honestly other than maybe buff its damage to hit horde enemy 1 shot break points easier?

2 Likes

How about:

  • Remove 3rd light

  • Remove delay after end of combo

  • Increase its base damage or increase its cleave

That’s a huge no-no, Fatshark is adamant against removing attack animations (considering they’ve spent time making them), and it would only serve to make the weapon feel more basic and boring.

Delay was removed in the earliest rendition of the Weapon Rebalance mod, and it was grossly overpowered. Delay between attacks is already lower than it used to be, it’s already really fast as is.

Increasing cleave would only serve to remove its identity as a purely single-target weapon. Base damage is already increased from before the BBB and is high enough already.

All three of these changes combined would make the weapon even more stupid than ever before.

3 Likes

Honestly I like the idea of the 1h and dual axes ALWAYS hitting 2 targets(including elites) with the second target hit either taking greatly reduced damage (like now) or just taking no damage at all. They would still be pretty bad against hordes, they would just be safer. To be fair, dual axes aren’t really too bad vs hordes due to attack speed, but 90 percent of players I see on the beta use 2H weapons or dual hammers on slayer. Honestly the dual axes don’t feel strong enough to be gated to a single class.

I think the armor damage on 1h axe is fine though honestly. The heavies are the same damage profile as 2h hammer lights afaik which is damn strong. The added attack speed on lights allows you to shred stormvermin and bestigors really fast.

However, I do think dual axes armor damage on heavies should be increased to the damage of the bugged diagonal heavies that were on the dual hammers at the start of the beta. That damage profile was sexy but it was on the dual hammers for some reason. Yes I know that the finesse multipliers on dual axes was increased but it’s still not enough tbh as Bardin’s natural height disadvantage makes it much harder to hit headshots against chaos and beastmen.

2 Likes

A shield maybe? :wink:

5 Likes
Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu