My weapon suggestions

  • Mace-hammer&shield feel less unique. I think it’s fine to make the shield bash come second, but the weapon needs more.

  • Halberd needs to get looked at in regards to attack animations and attack speed. I’d say it looks a bit goofy and is missing some meatyness from its strikes, lacking in animation delay between stuff like H1-L2 stabs, where the L2 doesn’t even get lined up properly. I also still think it should cleave elites with heavy sweep.

  • Executioner probably doesn’t need the speed nerf. It barely affects Mercenary or GK, where you can get enough speed steroids to off-set it, or switch to a different weapon for bad situations, while affecting FK and HS more. If it needs a nerf, it should get it in other regards, or at least lower the speed nerf a bit to something like 5%.

  • Tuskgor spear should lose its innate block cost reduction, and maybe get 4 stamina shields back. It makes very little sense for a wooden stick of a spear to be practically on par with shields for blocking, especially when it has impeccable block/push angle, and such good crowd control as well.

  • 1h axe I see very little reason to use heavy attacks, light attacks have innate 10% crit chance, are faster and more fluid. It also negatively impacts gameplay with WHC, where all you do is light attack and fish for crits, destroying elites like Stormvermin. Remove the crit chance from light attacks, or lower it to 5%, give heavy attacks 5-10% crit chance. Makes heavy attacks more useful, discourages light attack crit fishing with WHC and gives him a reason to use heavy attacks. Thematically it also makes a lot more sense to use the heavy oveerheads for chopping heads off of elites, makes it a little mini-executioner.

  • Great axe should get lowered crit chance on L3, down to 10%. Huge boosts like this shouldn’t be innate on weapons, 10% should generally be the maximum, with exception on big lumbering attacks like Executioner heavies.

  • Warpick needs more than a linesman modifier. It’s essentially the executioner with nothing going for it, no headshot damage multiplier, no crit chance on heavies, and way less DPS output from light attacks with equivalent speed with even the nerfed executioner.

  • Dual daggers and sword & dagger should get at most 5% crit chance on any individual swing.

  • Elven spear & shield I strongly disagree with. L3 should not have been changed to a sweep, makes the weapon less unique, I really enjoyed the all stabs of light attacks.

  • Disagree with axe & falchion mobility buffs. It’s on-par with something like falchion on dodge when it doesn’t make sense, you’re wielding two weapons in each hand which should theoretically lower mobility. It should feel more like a berserker all-out DPS weapon.

  • Billhook special attack should get longer delay and less attack speed so it’s not nearly as spammable and instead gets used accordingly as an actual special attack. Chaos Warriors should be immune to the special attack, it ruins the feel of the enemies to have such a burly brute get flinched over by some old man with a peasants stick. Makes no sense how this weapon staggers CW’s out of all attacks, on top of having decent horde clear and huge single-target damage. It feels absolutely wrong.

  • Disagree heavily with longbow changes. Not being able to move on full charge added a nice feel to the weapon and a layer of complexity, having to actually stand still to release an accurate charged shot, and having to use to dodging to position yourself well and timing it so you can make accurate shots. Also disagree with zoom changes, zooming in on full charge was a good indicator of when the shot was actually charged, that and I was just used to it.

  • Disagree with Handgun. Removed a lot of complexity from it while at the same time making it too similar to crossbow and longbow, while also arguably making it too good at quick-shotting specials with the reload speed buff. Ammo increase meant aiming for headshots was far less necessary for ammo sustain, which lowers the skill needed. I would suggest to nerf ammo back down to vanilla, put reload speed back to 2s, and instead give it the ability to cleave several elites and specials. The ability to hit 2 or more stormvermin lined up would be completely thematic for a handgun to do so, makes it unlike any ranged weapon in the game, and give it the power needed to compete. Lining up elites and specials and releasing a shot would make it feel like a railgun.

  • Volley Crossbow and Swiftbow are arguably too strong as discussed in other threads.

  • Last one for me are the mobility changes. I absolutely loathe the changes they made to movement speed while attacking. I would very much appreciate if changes like this

and this

get reverted. Not only are those changes not at all necessary, it affects the feel of these weapons in a very negative way, for me at least. Makes the weapons feel less weighty, makes the game feel more arcade-like, and the most egregrious one is the greatsword change. I loved the feel of charging greatsword heavy swings, the movement speed penalty was a nice little layer of complexity that you can deal with completely fine by using it’s superior dodge in comparison to other 2h weapons. Now it feels a lot worse without even being necessary or significant in terms of gameplay.

Do note this is all my opinion and I speak for no one but myself. Comment sponsored by Raid VPN.

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I don’t really like this idea. The whole purpose of bringing a single target, elite killing weapon is so you can light attack armor. Why would I ever bring a 1H axe instead of a 1H hammer for example? They have very similar if or identical armor damage on heavies and the 1H hammer is much safer vs. hordes. If I am forced to heavy elites, I would never take the axe, tbh.

And the reason to use heavies on 1H axe is for super armor. It does quite a bit more dps vs. Chaos Warriors than light attacks do.

I agree that the animations need some refining to make the new chaining patterns match up better. However, I don’t think it needs any changes to any of its numbers or properties. It feels very strong imo.

Agree.

Agree.

Warpick actually does more raw armor dps than Exe. It’s just overkill in a lot of situations. As far as light attacks go, it may do less dps, but it also has WAY more control. Lights have a ton of stagger power and they also have massive stagger cleave. Do you think the weapon feels unsafe or that it is simply under-performing in dps? If it’s an issue of dps, do you think that a solution could be to take some of the armor killing power from heavy charges and put it on a the light charge?

This isn’t the case for any other dual wield weapon in the game. I can’t really fathom a reason why AF would be the exception. However, I will say that failing to remove Heavy Linesman from the push attack makes this feel like a pure buff to a weapon that didn’t need it. Once Heavy Linesman is gone, I think it will be easier to get a feel for the changes. Most people don’t realize how much they rely on the push attack chain on this weapon. When there are no mass modifiers, that chain feels pretty weak. Until that change can be felt, it’s hard to say how strong the weapon is.

Can you give any reason why you feel this weapon deserves such heavy mobility restrictions in comparison to elf longbow and/or xbow?

If you think it feels bad that’s definitely a valid opinion. However, the move speed on greatsword is actually quite significant in terms of gameplay. Positioning is crucial in order to make use of the massive cleave G-sword heavies have. The movespeed increase during heavies is designed to allow the user to “chase” enemies or hordes that have been slightly pushed back by a shield or some such thing. Or even a prior heavy for that matter.

Edit:

I haven’t really seen this. Why is swiftbow too strong?? It’s still way worse than hagbane just from my experience.

1 Like

Agree with these.

I disagree.

I agree at some point. But I don’t think remove the crit chance bonus from the light attacks are not good idea. Down to 5%? Yes, maybe. And how about give a high headshot multipliers on its heavies?

Just came to say i agree with Billhook permastagger alt attack. It’s too strong, it shouldn’t exist. Cw’s are no threat at all. Even multiple enemies you can keep them staggerd by alternating between them. especially on zealot, but thats just cuz attack speed.

Also whc can crit with this alt attack, which results in his passive proccing.

I would suggest either lower the attack speed of the alt attack.
Lower the amount of stagger it does, so you either can’t permastagger multiple elites by just alternating or stagger cw’s out of every attack.
Remove the fact that the alt attack can crit or atleast make it not count towards whc passive.

3 Likes

You could still lower the crit down to 5% and have it be fine. Giving crit chance to heavies just feels right in my opinion.

To be fair the main reason for me is because of Cataclysm+ content, cause there’s so many shields and elites that the halberd becomes a purely single-target weapon. I don’t think it would make halberd too strong if it could cleave a few elites (it would still have a lot less cleave than greatsword), since it’s not a high damaging attack nor does it have good stagger.

I’m unsure what to think of warpick, partly because I have little experience with the weapon, but partly because theoretically it’s not that bad of a weapon. The thing with light attacks is that not only do they feel really slow for the amount of damage they do, but they also get stuck on shields and the first elite it hits. It’s not a good weapon for mixed hordes as I see it. The heavy attack is also something that looks good, but in theory is hard to pull the most DPS out of it, since it’s so slow that it forces you to play more defensively with it, especially when we’ve had executioner reign over it for so long with its heavies, (when it’s allegedly not that overpowered). I know it’s probably good on slayer, but think about how miserable it is (or at least used to be) on the other 2 dwarf careers. Designing a weapon based around a single career doesn’t feel good to me.

It’s a pet peeve of mine with dual weapons, how they have equivalent or even better dodge stats than some 1h weapons is a mystery to me. Dual axes you could explain with it being a slayer exclusive weapon, and slayer is a nimble career (can stunties even be called nimble?), but axe & falchion and the like having equal mobility with falchion makes little sense, when you’re literally wielding the falchion + another weapon. From a design stand-point, it doesn’t make sense, not necessarily from a gameplay one though (similar to how tuskgor spear is fine from a gameplay perspective, but its stats, properties and the way it handles doesn’t really feel like a spear).

The main reason is cause I just think it’s fun. It’s fun to have these little quirks about weapons, adds a little complexity and finesse to a weapon. I liked it. Again, whether or not from a gameplay standpoint it’s fine, I dunno. I also partly think that weapons like crossbow lack little things like that. I actually think a penalty to accuracy while running would be good, prevents run’n gun on a sniping weapon and makes you think about standing still for more accuracy. It’s a similar thing to how I wouldn’t want handgun to get pinpoint accuracy while running, just doesn’t feel right.

Which is why you should be using its superior dodge to do that. My opinion at least.

I’ve used greatsword a ton in various difficulty settings and I can’t really say I’ve ever experienced this. Shield one, sure, but that’s a bit on the shields I think (pushes should probably push enemies away a bit less further away, really annoying when you push enemies out of your attacks with sword&shield). Greatsword has a lot of reach, and it doesn’t stagger enemies so much that it pushes them back. And yeah, I really do think it makes the weapon feel worse to me.

I rarely use G-sword, if ever. I hate not being able to kill elites effectively, but this is a feedback that I’ve seen pretty consistently. I don’t have any personal experience one way or the other.

I get the subjective fun aspect of it, but for balance reasons it really doesn’t make any sense unless Manbow gets some sort of advantage over other sniping weapons. Even with the mobility improvements, it’s still worse than Xbow, Elf bow, or bolt staff, tbh. Personally, I think the zoom should be toggleable. The zoom is what causes the move stoppage btw. That way you could choose exactly when you want to stop and shoot as it does get some pretty severe accuracy penalties for moving. It would also add a skill cap to the weapon.

Yeah this is something we’ve joked about as well. Makes no sense that two weapons are lighter than the one weapon. But it does “feel good” from a purely gameplay perspective. If you put in the push-stab nerf as well as a mobility nerf, there would be no real reason to run AF or Falchion or even the Axe in most scenarios.

I just feel like this would be too big of a nerf to the Axe. The bonus crit damage isn’t very high on the axe, so it’s not going to make a huge dps difference either way. However, the crits on lights allow characters to stagger elites which really plays into its role as an anti-armor weapons. Crits on heavies wouldn’t really accomplish the same thing because heavies are much slower. Given the 1H axes performance against skaven hordes and even meatier hordes, it should really shine against single target elites imo.

I agree that it feels pretty bad against a big mass of shields. However, I do really like it against mixed elites because the push stab L3 combo is so effective at controlling horde mobs while sniping elites.

Yeah it’s a really tough one. It’s a solid choice on Slayer already. Maybe a buff to attack speed would be the play? Maybe to light attacks only. IDK would need to play test that for sure.

Thank you. It is good to see someone else argueing like this. For all I care they can leave the reload speed (despite it being faster than its actual third person animation :P), cleave and damage profiles. But that the crossbow has this high accuracy while running (or better not aiming with the ironsights) feels weird. Ranged weapons should be either sniping or run and gun weapons, not both. To a certain extent this also counts for Braces of Pistols which have a weirdly high accuracy for a gunpowdered pistol without ironsights which are shot one-handed.

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I haven’t used it in ages but the push attack was for mixed hordes previously. Didn’t work against multiple armored units but single ones mixed in. The pushing part for clearing horse and the actual attack doing good armor damage. It’s not the strongpoint of the weapon but it was the best way to deal with that situation.

As you mentioned crit chance, why certain weapons have extra crit chance at all?
I know two reasons, 2h weapons are slow so it’s more difficult for them to activate swift slaying. So they deserve +5% and thats all.
And after all uppercuts cannot headshot so they may get +10%. Maybe.

Or 0%.

I agree with these above.

Wait they increased its cleave, don’t they? Handgun should do this, no question about it.
I used the beta version only once shooting only specials.
However 1.5 s reload time is quite appropriate when Salz can reload 2 pistols /sec. :slight_smile:
And I like the ammo change as well.

It does. The problem isn’t this nerf but the lack of useful alternatives. Maybe the halberd is better now, I don’ know yet.
Greatsword for example would deserve a strong thrust, activated only after a push attack. This would increase its single target damage.

The 1h axe is kind of a trash weapon, but the crit chance gives it some value that’s hard to get elsewhere by giving semi reliable stagger against armored elites.

The warpick is a weapon that feels utterly terrible to use, the light attacks come out much too slowly, deal too little damage, and ironically the ‘stagger’ that is meant to be a bonus just causes the rats you aren’t killing to get spread all over the place.

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Wouldn’t call it a trash weapon, it’s a lot faster now and better in general. Also has some of the best dodge stats in the game. Perfectly usable on all careers, and pretty strong with WHC and Zealot I imagine, as well as Slayer.

I don’t think there is any weapon at the moment that isn’t ‘usable’ so that’s a fairly low bar. What I mean though is there is no reason to take it over a bunch of better stuff. I use it on slayer, and the only reason I use it on him is for those juicy crits. So if you tell me whc has great synergy with it I can only view that as a positive, but I’ll keep using my rapier thank you very much :slight_smile:

I tried it on whc a few days ago and it was quite good. Unlike with the former version I never felt overwhelmed with it. Its stats are high as well.

No. Bash 1st.

Yes, but that is largely because of the crit chance on the attacks giving stagger power the weapon lacks. Otherwise, you could increase the base stagger power, but that’d be way too OP.

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