My summarised Bardin feedback

1h Axe: Good. It feels in a good place, it fulfils its niche well as the anti-armour mobile option.

Greataxe: Good. It’s in a very strong place, which is ok with me cause the greataxe is an awesome weapon. It’s still got its weaknesses such as mobility and a slow CC attack, and doesn’t outshine weapons like 2hh for AP and control. Very good changes.

Axe & Shield: Good. Not played it much but the weapon still functions well as the newb-friendly control weapon.

Dual Axes: Good. Higher headshot multipliers are always a healthy way to increase power through rewarding skilful play.

Warpick: Good. It now has more potential to be picked up by non-Slayer dwarfs thanks to being a bit less risky to use vs hordes and receiving chip damage because of lack of attack speed. I would mention that on Slayer this is buffing an already extremely powerful build involving 2 pickaxes and Q-swapping light attack 1, not dissimilar to the x2 greathammer Slayer that was rightly nerfed.

Greathammer: Good. Bear in mind because the profile of the heavy was pasted into the push-attack, it now counts as a heavy for Grimnir’s on Slayer.

1h Hammer: Mostly good. The weapon maintains its identity as a mobile CC tool with moderate hordeclear and AP, and is still rightly outshone by hordeclear weapons. I disagree with increasing the crit chance modifier to 20% on the uppercut (and all the other uppercuts where 20% crit was added), I think it was a needless buff in a lot of cases, and buffs Swift Slaying which really doesn’t need it hah.

Handgun: Good. This is a good QoL buff, though I would prefer to see its unscoped spread be a little less… spread.

Throwing Axes: Good. They are still weak though, and what would help this is QoL changes to their reload animations/windups.

Drakefire Pistols: Good.

Weapon Suggestions: Drakegun is a problem weapon. It still needs to decimate hordes, or its niche is null, so I would suggest at the very least massively increasing its heat usage on the flamer attack, so at least there is the drawback of venting time and HP for such a powerful attack.

RV talents:
-Share and Share Alike: I like the idea and it adds a more competitive option on this row, but I don’t like throwing MS bonuses around so nilly willy. Perhaps increase the AS but remove the MS.
-Exuberance: It was already a good talent, I don’t think it needed the buff. However if it’s kept, then specify in the tooltip that both 30% bonuses don’t stack.
-Ranger’s Ambush: Good talent, but to be more competitive with other choices increase the AS bonus. 15% seems more reasonable for such a short duration limited to a small area on a long CD.
-Ranger’s Parting Gift: Good. For full groups this talent is the strongest on the row, which is why the others need to be made more competitive. HOWEVER, please consider having this talent replace the 3rd talent on the row, and KEEP the bomb dupe, that way all 3 options will have a reason to be selected.

Suggestions on RV: Again, keep the bomb dupe talent but keep the 2 new ones on that row. Perhaps think of something to replace the 5% AS talent, since that one is simply uninspired.

Ironbreaker talents:
-Drakki Wrath: Good but it currently also massively increases attack speed on LMB attacks, and I’m fairly sure it shouldn’t.
-Crushing Counter-Blow: I don’t think IB needs this. He was balanced/on the stronger side before these changes so making him also have more offensive power feels unneeded.
-Ironbreaker’s Resolve: On this row I disagree with lifting the other 2 options up to meet Gromril Curse, as it was already a bit powerful for no drawback. Also adding even more offensive power to IB goes against his identity and is again quite unneeded given his power level beforehand.
-Tunnel Fighter: Again feels unneeded, IB is already practically invincible and so this aspect doesn’t need exacerbating.

Suggestions on IB: Don’t bring the other 2 talents up to match Gromril’s Curse’s strength, give a drawback to Curse and bring it down to the others’ level. Overall I don’t think IB needed any changing. If anything, Curse needed a drawback but otherwise he was relatively balanced already.


By this do you mean leaving it at 0% or 10%?

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10% is good, 20% seems excessive. I should also make an attempt at pushing for SS/general trait adjustments as this also buffs SS even further.


Gotcha. Also doing the same. It’s really overdue. No one has used anything besides SS since before the first BBB.

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Agreed. 20% is excessive, maybe even 10% isn’t needed. Adding tank to light 1, 2 and push attack + changing the uppercut damage profile was enough to bring One Handed Mace/Hammer up.

However, I think reducing the amount of crit chance modifiers in the game is the wrong way to go about nerfing SS. It’ll make careers like WHC even more valuable.
It’s the most picked trait for good reason.

Adding an internal cooldown to SS might solve the problem. e.g: This effect can only trigger every 6 seconds.

I think 10% crit on any given light attack is both the baseline and maximum bonus it should have if it’s going to have a crit chance modifier at all

In my eyes it’s already the baseline Fatshark themselves set with weapons like 1h axe and dual daggers. 20% crit is excessive unless we’re talking push attacks or heavy attacks; attacks that can’t be spammed for crit fishing as easily or without some sort of drawback such as stamina consumption or a slow animation like Executioner Sword heavies


Greataxe does feel a ‘tad’ overtuned, im not really sure why i’d pick the 2handed hammer over it at the moment.

Drakegun needs some overhauling, always has. IMO its rightclick needs to be a much more focused stream, so allies can actually work around it.

Along with the new talent it feels much more usable, as the increased attackspeed at low heat lets you spam staggering leftclicks, which gives it an interesting niche as a ranged AOE CC (it kinda did before, but was too sluggish to feel useful at it)

Perhaps we could lean into this, re-orient the weapon toward short bursts that stagger rather than long continous streams that eat up playable space.

EDIT: Perhaps when you charge up the right click, you dont need to fire the whole charge in one burst- you can ‘feather’ the flame with leftclicks, allowing for far more control and far less ally frustration.

Change the damage profile to focus on damage-over-time, so when you blast a horde you leave them burning on their asses, still allowing allies to mop up for THP if needed, but with a long enough burn that they will mostly die if left.

Throwing axes, I think all they need is a weapon swap speed buff and they’l be perfect.

Pistols Great, however i’ve always wanted to be able to charge up the leftclicks for greater accuracy/range at the cost of more heat. It can be frustrating relying on RNG spread to save a pounced ally.

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2H Hammer does more Super Armor dps. Greataxe does more Infantry and Monster dps. They are virtually equal on all other armor types. 2H Hammer has way more stagger power on light attacks. 2H Hammer has far more horde/elite control via stagger cleave and armor sliding. Greataxe has slightly more damage cleave on infantry mobs. I actually run them together.

Note: I think the 20% crit on L3 is unneeded and should be removed. It’s already a stout weapon.


I agree with most of what you said on weapons, but as someone who has mainly played IB on the beta (and before) I don’t share your analysis of him. The Drakegun is indeed hard to balance, but on higher difficulties you still don’t nearly have enough heat to fight an entire horde. You already have to vent (or switch to melee and be more economical with your flamer, off course). If it generates even more overcharge than it already does, it’ll be ineffective fast. And it still does nothing Sienna’s staves can’t do either, plus it already has the drawback of leaving you vulnerable vs. Specials.

And his latest talent selection looks great. The more offense minded options are good to have, since only defending is lame and they have a defensive stipulation as well (be near others, block, as a counter to being hit). They absolutely fit his style. And I don’t think Gromril curse was that out of line, and neither are the new competing options. IB right now certainly doesn’t nearly feel as powerful still as the best classes in the game. Since the idea of the beta seems to be to to affect the meta instead of lowering the highest power cap, that’s exactly what FS seems to be aiming for. As he is right now, I’d even rate him as perfectly balanced power-wise, and as having no useless talent choices anymore. If nothing about him changes anymore, he’ll be a great class.

Throwing axes are too slow to be viable on cata IMO. They need to speed them up a bit. Weapon swap speed, charged attack windup speed, movement speed while charging etc. They just take away too much player mobility for RV so you end up having to ult just to keep the enemies off your back long enough to use them.

At the very least they should remove the speed penalty for reloading, it’s the only weapon that does this.

You should try Drakki Wrath all the way with drakefire pistols. Sure it shoots faster at first, but unfortunately, it deals A LOT less damage at low overcharge. Which makes me think “What’s the point”. Also it slows you down a ton when your heat is high, so you are massively vulnerable in situations where you are trying to swap your weapons to block.

The talent brings too much of a downside with it that I’m not a fan of at all. Especially with the AoE limit being set to 10 units fireable at a time for the pistols. I find that it’s better to not use the talent and keep spamming RMB shots for reliable quick shots all the time.

Interesting, alot of people have been praising the pistols with the new talent but I too found it rather underwhelming myself. Firing super fast, while funny, is a little bit silly when it takes a ridiculous number of shots to kill a special. Similarly the talent has turned the drakegun into a clunky mess.

Also to touch on throwing axes, what they NEED more than anything else, is a reduction in friendly fire damage. I lament my bad luck when a ranger joins with these things as he’s often as much of a threat as the horde.

The new talent might make the Drakegun clunky in its handling, but it opens the possibility of killing stuff with the left click burst. It can’t really do that without it. So the talent is a tradeoff where your horde-roasting and handling are a little less good in trade for better special killing power. I quite like it so far, even on Cata.

I agree the Pistols are not in such a great place yet. The new talent does make their damage a lot better (shotgun burst becomes useable to actually kill hordes!), but their bad handling at large overcharge and pitiful armor damage, in combination with the fire speed debuff, make them very bad still vs. Specials. They try to hold the same niche as the Drakegun, but they’re less good at it.

I think a buff to the pistols’ damage vs. armor, or a huge buff to stagger on leftclick, could put them in a niche of their own so you have a reason to take them over the Drakegun. The talent itself I feel is actually alright, since it adds functionality to either drakefire weapon at a cost.

You mean the left click burst at high heat? Because even without the talent you can 2shot most specials with that. Considering that the weapon swap speed becomes painfully extended at high heat using it for the damage bonus to pop a special or elite is too unsafe in my opinion.

Without the talent you can 2 shot specials (including gunners and flamers) on legend and cata? I only played beta on cata, I admit, but I didn’t think the base Drakegun was strong enough to kill specials with burst that easily.

With the live version of Drakki Wrath & 20% vs armor you can kill any armored skaven unit in two left clicks.

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Even on Cata? Wow. Never realized that.

It’s one of the things that makes the drake gun superior to the flamestorm staff.

Imo, it’s one of the only reasons the thing feel usable in Cata. Without it you can often get left in awkward situations with no good options.

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Thanks for the information, didn’t know! I was excited about the talent precisely because I thought it let me do this where I couldn’t before, which is the reason I felt the flamer was finally worth bringing.

I guess the new talent vs. the old still has more heat, suprisingly decent monster damage, and the very sweet benefit of no melee speed reduction on high overcharge. But its new clunkyness might be a rather steep price for those things. Not sure if and how the talent needs to be changed here. A little less handling slowdown?

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I’ve mentioned this before in other threads but the game has a major problem with players shooting teammates that are standing on top of them. They’re not far enough in front of you to be visible, but when you shoot a ranged weapon it hits them immediately because the projectile spawns inside of them. This is a problem with all ranged weapons but especially with throwing axes because your movement speed slows as you do a heavy throw, which tends to result in you pasting kruber in the back of the head with an axe as he runs through you. Everyone knows not to stand in front of kruber when he pulls the longbow out, but a throwing axe just looks like a regular 1h axe and it doesn’t ping the same instincts to avoid damage.

My solution would be to impose a minimum range that projectiles must travel before they can affect teammates, this way you will only shoot teammates in the back if they are far enough in front of you to be fully visible, and not just partially standing on top of you.

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