That’s a big reach, at least point to the Wind of Magic modifiers (eg: Primal totems can be found in the Weave, empowering enemies. Attack the totems to destroy them. )
The Athanor was in fact a big problem that they did avoid (Resetting/separate building mechanics./progress)
I think it is sensible to treat Havoc as the equivalent of Weaves, not due to the current system, which has some points of similarities as well as some of differences, but rather due to the goal that I think both mode are made toward.
Which is meant to be hard content that will occupy the hardest players (which they’ve realised wasn’t hard enough, which they’re fixing.), but they’ve also seen in Weaves that making such a mode and having it be wholly inaccessible wasn’t the best idea. As some player will never have the level of the Havoc stuff, and putting those mutations in the normal mission system should be envisaged, but done after careful consideration, and on a case to case basis (as to not turn of new players)
Yeah sounds about right. The “hard enough” thing is up for debate depending on who you ask, but I don’t think the best players are ever going to be satisfied with the current design philosophy.
The same players who don’t struggle with or without meta builds are going to continue breezing through it unless numbers are tweaked to the point that every run has to be a “no-hit” run.
Which again isn’t really the kind of challenge I think they should be striving for.
Wich was fine, cause maps in Back to Ubersreik were from V1, so they needed to justify it narratively.
It’s a ladder mode with modifiers that has no replaybility values. The fact they improved chunks to full maps and didn’t separate weapon progression, well it doesn’t change its essence.
For such mode to work you need a longer progression and deeper itemizations system with cross progression to normal mode.
Something like:
You stuck at Havoc 20 → go play normal games, earn better gear → come back to Havoc → beat Havoc 25, earn unique cosmetics or weapons with unique blessings → use it in normal mode. /repeat
Maybe unique currency you can use for something, even premium currency for beatin Havoc 40 every season. Also seasonal updates for Havoc (i doubt it will be)
When you have separated modes that just split playerbase and don’t work like closed system with the core mode it’s bad, it was fine 15 years ago.
I don’t really care where or why we do it in the new mode. I’m far more concerned about a separate game mode that is detached from the rest of the game and, in the worst case, is a mode where your loadout is removed in favor of an RNG-based roguelike mode that has no merit other than “it’s fun and new every time you play it.”
That might be okay for some, but I see it as a sign of capitulation due to a lack of meaningful progression and fewer ways to invest in our characters.
“Frack it, it doesn’t matter what you build or choose—we remove it! Here, have random bullshaite for some missions and go at it!”
Actually, I don’t want new game modes. I want them they make better what we have.
I want to be able to choose my map and condition. I did not want or ask for havoc. I really want that we can choose the map AND the conditions and that we can get all available conditions already created.
For Mortis trial, we don’t know what it will be… but sure, not something I asked.
As a new game mode I want them that they create a solo game mode (so a mode without bot). Obviously it means a different way to deal with toughness, modified disablers (less of them? it would be my choice perso as an option to get free after x time does not make sense in a pure solo as all enemies are ON you) and several missions adjustments (I think here to demon’s objectives with the 3 yellow bulbs).
I want them also that they permit us to launch private game alone and that we can use our characters as bots. This would complete the solo game mode.
Here this is exactly what I wait for 2 years. And a solo mode was promised. I want a solo game mode and a 1 player game option…
It’s okay that people ask for solo mode, but if I were FS, I wouldn’t waste a single dev minute on it. The game is just not fundamentally designed to be played solo.
The monetization depends on other players seeing your overpriced cosmetics, creating a feedback loop of buying and showing them off to others. Only a very few would buy cosmetics just to show them to bots.
In my personal opinion, I also don’t want a solo mode. I wouldn’t play it, and I don’t find it appealing at all to play this game alone.
In term of new customers, a solo mode can have a better positive impact. On consoles, you need to pay a subscription each time you you want to play in cooperation online.
Having such solo mode would allow console players to have a mode that does not require a subscription to play the game.
Also, they have promised that they would deliver this mode.
The solo game mode would be something excellent. However, it would not replace the interest for the cooperation part of the game. This would also the game mode that would require more work, even if a “mod” permit it actually.
At contrary the option to open private game even to a player alone is something easy to do. The option to use our own bots is also easy. A mod do it, so really easy to implement this. You don’t need a team to change a “2” to a “1”. And for the bots, someone has already written a code for that. I am sure they can code that even better and that it would not take them 6 months for that. So, this possibility could be implemented easily. However, it would not have the impact I have described before as you would still require a subscription to play this. However, this would permit solo games without too much work.
If it’s anything like the roguelite elements they’ve used in the past, you will get to still have your loadout. Usually gear was the only thing restricted, not the talents. You still get to choose your weapons, if not their bonuses.
Considering a large part of the builds in DT come from talents and the class of weapon more so than their perks/blessings (in most cases), you’d still be able to have decent jurisdiction over your playstyle.
There is no good ground to argue on. You personally want this solo experience, and I cannot support the idea behind it.
The game was fully advertised, designed, and works best with other players. Yes, it might seem that solo play is feasible, but ultimately, the reality is that there is no solo mode now, and overall, it’s still not the fundamental idea of the game to be played alone.
I just see the game being somewhat slow on new content and development, and a solo mode for the very few people who are hellbent on playing this co-op game alone is just not a good investment of dev time, especially when they could develop something for everyone to enjoy.
P.S. Stop buying consoles and you don’t have to pay the online tax. Consoles are a fallacy for people who hesitate to invest in a PC and get gouged on game prices, online modes, and everything else.
I see. Maybe it’s not specifically the mechanics or content of an alleged roguelike mode, but rather my personal belief that expanding the game rather than sidetracking would be better for its long-term success and fun.
I see a new detached mode as a sidetrack rather than an expansion of the core game.
I can understand the line of thought, but anecdotally, I had at least one friend who was essentially never going to pick up VT2 again until they added the roguelite mode and it piqued his interest.
It was also clearly successful at bringing in older and newer players based on the charts and flood of new player posts on reddit, steam, etc.
So from a business standpoint, it makes sense to add this kind of mode based on past experience. Many people were baffled that this mode wasn’t added instead of Havoc at the time.
And I have a PC, I play on PC. My son uses the console however, but won’t play Warhammer Darktide.
And fully advertised also that there would be a solo game mode.
Seriously, they have lost time for a very small part of the players with havoc.
But let’s say that we don’t agree… however, I really don’t see what it will change to you if they allow us to start private game alone? it should take 5 to 15 minutes this change. Permitting us to use our own mod, maybe 1 hour or 2 if they use the existing code? let’s say 2 days with coffees pauses.
True. I’d prefer that as well. And this is coming from someone who played the heck out of Chaos Wastes.
I’d prefer they focus on keeping us all very much engaged with this war were supposed to be having. (starting to feel like we’ll be playing Football with the heretics soon, at this rate.)
That was what I wanted from them for base game. I was thinking party finder was that… but it seems they don’t push to use it for this.
Havoc is really something, I did not want… and if they would have added one new game mode, I expected that they would have started by fulfill their promises by permitting solo game play.