Then you should ask FS to balance their game. Wanting better balance and OP stuff to be nerfed doesn’t mean everyone should run around with builds that barely work solely because they “like it”.
not necessarily disagreeing with that, just adding context that felt relevant
It keeps ANYONE from joining since winning a 40 would give you no reward (after the first time), but there would be a punishment for losing
So you neglected to read the other half of my original response where I directly disagreed with your take, as have the majority here? 
Abuse the flag system all you want bud, I find it amusing 
Only that the entire bloody MODE must be “nerfed”, back to a level where a team of randos can expect that with skill they can pull it of, WITHOUT having to “synergize” too hard for a bunch of randoms, soo much that if you don’t take build X/weapon Y on class Z
you are not going to make it. Or that’s at least the META mindset…
IMO a bunch of buffs for certain weapons/class & new weapons (OGRYN!) would be a nice start.
After all “balance” is a two-way-street.
That’s an easy fix. Don’t make three attempts in a week? That’s a rank loss. Lose three attempts in a row? That’s a rank loss. In other words, H40 shouldn’t be something you hit once a season and wear like a badge of honour — it should be something you have to justify holding every single week. Or better yet, remove rank 40 as the cap altogether, so that players start to internalise: “My non-max rank is normal! But being max rank this week, barely clinging on by the titanic efforts of three and a half teams — that’s insanity!”
With your mindset:
Why not derank you class/weapons too?
Wanna stay level 30? Well better win 3 matches a week or you’re back to 29.
And your favorite bolter? That degrades now…
Better spend AQUILAS to have that repaired daily!
This is the road you want to take…
To be honest, with the right skills and sufficient cooperation, there aren’t any build requirements for clearing Havoc 40.
I’ve cleared it multiple times with four characters of the same class. I believe this is far from the meta.
The real problem is always that some random players are intentionally causing trouble.
Perhaps it was overconfidence, perhaps it was malice, but it was definitely not self awareness.
You yourself made this thing about builds/weapons…
I don’t need to quote you.
You know what you wrote.
And yeah, technically you can clear H40 with every weapon/every build,
BUT the deranking + the META mindset makes this extra hard.
Much harder then it ever needed to be.
So unfortunately class/build/weapons are all a factor people consider now,
mostly because of deranking, which YOU want MORE of!
We are definitely NOT in agreement.
I may not have made myself clear, but what I’m about to say is going to be pretty harsh.
If a player doesn’t have the skill, sticking to the meta build is the responsible choice for both themselves and their teammates.
If you do have the skill, you’re certainly free to showcase your own playstyle.
Of course, people are free to ignore this, but the consequence is losing rank.
That’s why I think the same should apply to Havoc 40.
Not sure what you’re trying to say, but it’s May now, and this happened in June
Thank you for your interest in democracy, I hope you will continue to support the democracy movement in China, but maybe not on the Darktide forum
This is going to be harsh, too:
Then you go private and don’t tell the rest of us how to play in public matches.
Hi guys,
I’m seeing a lot of discourse on here that is off topic and unnecessary. Just a friendly reminder to keep things civil and constructive.
Cheers! 
I’d LOVE to do that, if Fatshark could give us game modes that scale for 1, 2, or 3 players.
Until then, all we can do is enjoy the deranking system in Haovc.
Sorry, even harsher:
Not my problem.
Deranking is a mistake.
You proposal makes it worse.
I can see that we won’t agree on this,
BUT IMO you completely forget the human element in this:
-
A player makes a build, checks the build, get’s used to it and might even get good with it.
-
Now someone, afraid of deranking, pick’s that player regardless, for whatever reason
(their mistake), but demands a meta build. -
The player relents and picks the meta build to stay in the group.
-
The player plays less well, because he/she/it is not as used to that build, than their own.
-
The mission could fail because of this.
Solutions:
- Get rid of the (fear of) deranking.
- Get rid of the meta mindset.
- Buff weapons which have been neglected.
- Rebalance Havoc (35-40) again. Back to hard, but doable for randoms,
away from sweatlord/premades. - Patch “True Survivor” from “noone goes down” to “noone dies”, make it H40-only.
So, I got some solutions which would improve overall gameplay for all
AND are pro-teamplay, too.
Well said.
To be perfectly honest, I agree with every single suggestion you’ve made.
However, I’d like to quote this: Hope is the first step to disappointment.
I’ll continue to offer pessimistic suggestions to address the issues I see, but I have no objection to your optimism.
Fair enough.
I want the game, especially Havoc to be better & FUN & less of a disappointment for all.
I understand that deranking is meant to retain players,
but I was pushed away from Havoc with it and I guess I’m not alone.
IMO IF the got rid of deranking,
more player, even those which reached H40, are “True Survivors” would still play it for the fun.
Heck, they could add a Prestige Mode for those which want to prove themselves further…
There are better options then to divide the players further. 
im literally around so other takes look “mild”
no harshness in stating facts though, even more so if theres replays to back claims up 
after all the heels are always (were always in the golden age, i don’t even know what WWF is nowadays) more entertaining than the babyfaces 
as of today im “fondling” true solo mod for exactly that reason.
trying to find out where the max currently lies without being dependent on the “rejected” or loadouts of others.
space marine 2 shoved me time and again how relaxing that can be 
people seem to get it twisted that some put up with people for the 40k and the combat flow no other game so far has.
but everything has its limits, in front and away from the monitor
The easiest way to solve Havoc ranking is literally copy pasting the same system we use for normal difficulties
Split Havoc into 4, heck call it “tiers” or whatever
So we would get Tier 1 (Equivalent of Havoc 10), Tier 2 (Havoc 20), Tier 3 (Havoc 30) and Tier 4 (Havoc 40)
Once a player beats a Maelstrom, they unlock Havoc (as it is right now)
Beating a normal Maelstrom will unlock Havoc Tier 1, beating an Auric Maelstrom would unlock Havoc Tier 2
Once a player is in the Havoc board, they would see a progress bar from their tier to the next one. A player would need to win 5 wins in a “row” to unlock the next tier
Losing would subtract a “win”, but losing will never downgrade your Tier (for example, if you’re tier 2 and win 3 games, but lose 1, you’ll now be 2/5. But, if you just unlocked Tier 2, and you’re 0/5, losing a game will not downgrade you to tier 1, instead you’ll remain 0/5 in Tier 2)
((Bonus: Make it so that winning on a tier higher than yours gives you 2 win progress instead of 1))
This would make Havoc a LOT less frustrating, since the amount of games won needed to rank up a tier is 5 instead of 10 (going from Havoc 20 to 30 for example)
Lastly and most likely controversial, don’t allow people to play lower than their current tier, unless they’re playing with a friend, this would prevent the “havoc 40 player sandbagging on lower diffs not caring”