Mace and Sword Overtuned?

Let me start by saying that I want to open a discussion about the new mace and sword, because my feeling is this weapon is incredible at the moment. The argument to nerf xsword was it was too good at everything… but isn’t this weapon just the same thing with slightly less alpha strike damage, but a billion times better mobility? Currently I feel like this is a weapon with no weakness and absurd output, and unlike old xsword that only truly shined on merc, this thing is also incredible even on FK.

Thoughts? I’d love for some other people’s feedback on how they feel this thing is performing for them, or if I’m just crazy.

It’s not overtuned in comparison to 2H hammer or halberd, that’s for sure. I feel like “overtuned” is thrown around a bit too much, something would need to be absolutely absurd to be overtuned in the current meta.

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While I think 2hhammer is a godly weapon it certainly trades clear speed for control, and halberd I honestly haven’t tried enough yet. But the current mace and sword feels stronger to me than old xsword ever did. Forgive me for using the term overtuned. Perhaps you will prefer overbearing? I feel silly for taking other weapons on Kruber at the moment.

I think, the words you might be looking for are “too versatile”.

Mace and Sword suffers a lot on monsters and massed elites compared to other options


Halberd is extremely good. It has long reach and is very good at both horde clear and single target damage. Not to be rude of course, but if you “haven’t tried” certain weapons then it seems a little like you’re jumping the gun calling a different weapon overtuned. Mace and sword got a significant buff and it might be one of Kruber’s better weapons, and hypothetically it might be his best, but it’s not so overbearing that it’s in need of any sort of nerf in my opinion.

Exactly… it’s fine.


If we are talking legend, which I assume difficulty is balanced around? I have never come across sufficient elite density to prove problematic for it, the single target damage from spamming heavy/pushattack seems to kill sv/monks/maulers very quickly. Not to mention that all Kruber career’s have built in solutions for massed elites: merc shout, FK charge, huntsman invis, GK blessed blade.

All difficulties are considered in balance to an extent

Legend isn’t the exact baseline per se. There’s a lot of factors at play when it comes to why things are balanced in a certain way.

This is true but you’re not always going to have those solutions available when you need them, another thing to consider is that Executioner, for example, is still extremely popular despite that level of damage not being “needed” given you’ve got those solutions you mentioned.

To be clear I’m not interested in a nerf crusade or anything of the sort, and halberd may indeed also be very strong. But I think it’s still worth ‘comparing notes’ so to speak at least to determine where the baseline for ‘balanced’ lies. I honestly have very little feedback about most of the other weapon changes and some I couldn’t even tell were changed, that’s why this weapon is quite the standout to me.

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It feels fine to me.
The Exe Sword is still top dog IMO.

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M&S is certainly a powerhouse now, there’s no doubt about it. Not sure about overtuned, overbearing or w/e, but it’s a particularly potent all-rounder. Good mobility, good AP/single target (except monsters) and strong hordeclear. What’s worth noting is that it’s worse AP/single target than, say, executioner and 2hh, and worse hordeclear than things like greatsword and 1h swords. It’s also worth noting that decent all-rounders like this tend to shine most in QP, where you need to do a bit of everything, and currently the M&S does that very well.


Iirc, this weapon was nerfed after BtU’s release because it dealt with armor too well, right?

No, I think it’s all fine.

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After a heap of playtesting, I’m gonna revisit this and say M&S is too strong of an all-rounder currently. Namely it’s the Linesman on heavy attacks that send it over the edge, spamming heavies is the highest DPS against any enemies with the weapon now, whether it be hordes, bosses or elites. The damage of the heavies is fine, but Linesman is giving it too much cleave which pushes 1h sword too far out of the way; why take the hordeclearing specialist when you can take a more mobile hordeclearer that also crushes armour and single-target enemies?

TL;DR: remove Linesman from heavies and the weapon will be in a good place.


I heavily disagree. The weapon is supposed to be an all-rounder.
Besides, Executioner’s Sword doesn’t do much worse than S&M at horde clearing (especially on Mercenary) but absolutely destroys elites and monsters.

Could you clarify? Spamming heavies is certainly not the best DPS against elites nor bosses.

It does have too much cleave, from testing it is 9.9 +linesman on the heavies, it should be 7.78 + linesman from the patch changes, not sure where the change to 9.9 came from.


Depending on what you value M&S is quite fantastic right now. Good wave clear, decent armor damage and, for a Kruber weapon, great mobility. The only problem is the angled heavies that make it awkward to headhit CWs. The Shoulders seem to be an unavoidable obstacle at times.

It was the only real mobile option you have as Kruber, since the 1h Sword will never be anything but a gimmik with the current moveset, and the 1h Mace… well for some reason I want more than a dodge and stagger stick that has a semi effective single target heavy.

But now we have the Longsword, which for some reason basically has light weapon dodge distance and count, with more armor damage than the M&S, far easier moveset to actually hit heads and access to heavy linesman.

Both of them are in my eyes the best weapons on Kruber atm, not because of the damage, but their complete package, which makes you actually able to survive crap while dealing with it. One with easier wave clear, the other one with better elite damage (and some other gimmicks like blocking while charging a heavy). If you nerf one, the other one will just dominate that spot, or promote picking of something more specialized.

Well, actually, there’s a big problem with this weapon. The weapon model looks just not good. The mace looks ugly, and even sword is ugly. Well, of course its 3rd person animations are not good, too. But that’s general problem

Best DPS with this weapon.

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