Mace and Shield - Undocumented Change?

Very very very good changes all around. Satisfying combo chain as well. Paging @Tamren for this sweet, sweet buff.

However… one change went undocumented and I’d reckon it has something to do with the shuffling of chain attacks.

Personally, this is a massive change. Mace+Shield’s safest way of pushing through hordes is by spamming push-attack into a heavy shield bash. It doesn’t kill anything, just knocks enemies around, but it’s what solidifies this weapons as a stagger machine.

So… offense went up, control went down. I like the armor pen change, but I don’t want the Mace+Shield to stay this way. Please tell me this is a bug.

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a way to get around that would be to just push (not push attack) and then shield slam

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Those headshot bonks on the push-attack are too valuable. And personally, it’s just not as satisfying. I look like an idiot who’s not using their weapon at all and just waving the shield around. I’d like to think this change was unintentional and I don’t actually have to deal with that push-heavy combo.

Some thoughts:

  • Light 3 change: Good, very good. We now have at least 1 source of light attack armour damage that isn’t tied to crits, this puts it nicely in line with 1h sword, 1h mace and other weapons that aren’t specifically armour piercing the way an axe would be. It’s also an AP attack with an added crit bonus, but that seems warranted since it’s an uppercut and you won’t be getting many headshots.

  • New combo: We really needed that increase in armour DPS and this fits the bill nicely. You still have to spam push attacks to get the combo rolling, but the followup attack roughly halves the amount of stamina consumed. Now you can engage a few SV or a single CW without immediately draining your stamina to nothing.

  • Undocumented heavy change: I don’t like this at all. I still think whoever decided to flip the heavy attack order is just pushing their personal meta on us and doesn’t respect the spirit of the maceshield. Maceshield isn’t like sword/axeshield, it doesn’t need the slam to be first because it already has good CC and ways to combo into the slam. Sword/axeshield are the opposite because they lack CC and they typically start with the slam and combo into other horizontal CC attacks. Axeshield in particular has a heavy combo that chains into itself and doesn’t wrap around to the slam at the start, so putting the slam first makes sense for that weapon, but not for maceshield.

As it stands I would be happy with the light 3 change, but I strongly feel that the heavy attack chain should be restored to how it was before the beta.

I’ve also talked about buffing the Heavy 1 sweep attack in the past, now that light 3 is a source of AP damage I don’t think heavy 1 needs a damage buff. But the general utility of Heavy 1 is/was greatly limited because it stops on the first armoured target you hit and the high cleave rating is wasted. So I think it should be given the same modifier used by 2h sword/hammer heavies and xsword light attacks that lets it cleave through armour for stagger purposes.

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Yeah, this is a really negative change for the weapon in for me personally, doesn’t even seem like a balancing thing.

Making the uppercut an armor pen attack is a good change, but yeah the reordering of the combo so that light 3 comes right after pushattack feels like a nerf. Now not only can you not do push attack into shield bash, but you can’t do pushattack>light>light anymore either, which used to be a fast 3-hit combo that put out decent control and dps. Instead, if you want to use pushattack against a horde, you get pushattack>light>(wait for what feels like an eternity because the gap here is gigantic)>light.

At this point, Mace+Shield just feels like a much worse version of Sword+Shield, which has a much better pushattack>attack chain for dealing with armor, a seamless pushattack>light>light>light chain without any huge gaps, and just overall much faster attack speed.

This is how I also feel about the new hammer and shield. I’m very used to the push attack -> light 2 -> light 3 combo for horde.

I don’t think it’s a nerf though, since the light 3 does go into some nice damage. However, I’d just like some sort of follow up to the light 3 uppercut as the recovery on it feels REALLY slow. Using Heavy 2 (the sweep) after this feels like an eternity. Using light 1 still feels slow – I’ve traded blows every now and then doing this.

It just came down to if I need the damage, I’ll follow up the push attack with light 3. If I don’t, then Heavy 2, or block cancel for shield bash, or just push again.

Agreed, it really only feels like a nerf to the combo for me because the delay after light 3 is really long, so if they closed that up then the weapon might feel a bit better. It used to work out before because after pushattack>light>light you’d just start the chain over, thereby covering the gap, but now that’s not so feasible since pushattack>light is all single target and will also tank your stamina, while trying to chain into lights instead has a rather punishing gap.

I just wanted to mention I like the changes. “Under the line” the weapon has only gotten more control (through pysh -heavy 1) and more potential single target armor damage through pushattack -light 3 than before. To me it finally feels like a contender with axe or sword & shield. The combinations have just changed, but one we got used to them I’m certain we’ll be happy with them in the end.

2 Likes

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The change is amazing for quality of life vs armor and I really love the pushattack > light combo now. My problem is there is now no longer any reason to use the other light attacks. Spamming pushattack > light gives better control and clear than the other light attacks because push > light > light has insanely slow attacks. I don’t think the new combo needs to be nerfed or anything though but the rest of the kit needs to be adjusted slightly.

I really would just rather the heavy chain got swapped back to what it originally was. There’s no need to make all shield weapons be like the sword and shield. If the heavy sweep was insuficient as an opener, then it could get a small buff (more cleave? more stagger? shorter charge-up?) to compensate.

I’m very happy for the changes to Light 3 though, and I love that the push attack chains into light 3 on top, but the shield bash being the first heavy attack, and the push attack chaining into the heavy sweep are changes I’d rather got reverted. It makes the weapon too similar to axe & shield, hurting its uniqueness, and it doesn’t even help that much in CC unless you’re doing nothing but shield bash -> block cancel. And if you are, then goddamn, do that with another shield weapon. They don’t have to all be the same.

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I kind of share your feeling that the shield weapons have become more alike and that that is a shame, but on the other hand I do think the H/M&S has never been in a better spot balance-wise. I mean, what’s the point of a unique weapon when it’s horribly inferior to its alternatives? And opening with the bash just is a very effective strategy when you start fighting multiple opponents, and a few push-bashes to clear space are invaluable when your team is cornered and you need to make space.

Since this is a beta I’d like to see an attempt to buff the sweep instead, like you suggested, but its stagger cleave has to be amazing to make it perform at the level of other shield weapons. Which, I might add, are just good enough power-wise as they are. And I say that as somebody who mainly plays shields.

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Before the beta, the hammer & shield could already safely reach its shield bash in tense situations by doing push attack -> heavy, 'cuz the push attack chained into the shield bash.

What’s the point of having different weapons when they all play the exact same? Why have different weapons at all?


Like I said, I don’t disagree that the hammer & shield could’ve used a hand. I’m already extremely happy with the new armor pierce combo it has.
But for hordeclear, the chain it already had was fine. It gave you a horde combo playstyle that wasn’t just shield bash blockchain over and over. It was still simple, but it was effective and different and had some slight depth to it. If you really wanna just shield bash your heart out, both Kruber and Bardin have another shield weapon that can do exactly that

I really don’t think it needs much, buff it too much and it breaks the weapon probably.
I’d be more interested in giving it some faster charge-up or something, thus making it a more appropiate opener by having it come out quicker, also making it safer. Like quickly ‘setting them up’ for a shield bash.

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If you can’t read, you shouldn’t reply.

I was clearly happy about the BUFFS, not about the undocumented change. And I’ve been playing FK with Mace+Shield since WoM Beta. Probably the reason why I was the first person in the forums to bring this issue up in the first place, but sure, apparently I’ve never used the damn thing.

Right back at you.

You insulted me first, and when I snap back, you delete your comment. What a brave soul.

there’s a few things that should certainly be done for the heavy sweep, especially if the chain is the be reverted back to the OG one (which I’m not opposed to)

playing with mace and shield lately I’ve noticed that all I do now is just push attack->L3 for everything with the occasional shield slam because any other combo feels sluggish/anemic

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