[July 17 update] Ingrett's box of Footknight feedback

Weapons. July 17th.

Executioner’s Sword:
It was my favorite toy throughout levelling Kruber, but as I found it easier and easier to make my way around with it, I switched to toying with other stuff and haven’t used it a lot since.
Executioner’s sword is very forgiving because, despite lower cleave and body damage, it has two perfectly horizontal strikes to outright kill most infantry instead of interacting with it’s supposed weaknesses. It also has decent armor damage on headshots even with light attacks, making it very prominent on Mercenary.
Once a meme, in an attempt to equalize the power struggle versus prevalence of armor on higher difficulties, armor sliding was added along with crit chance on heavy attacks, making it versatile against mixed hordes as well.
This change will rattle bones and spew forth salt, but I think it’s worthwhile to ponder on in order to tone it’s versatility and return it to being a specialist weapon that will require you to rely on allies more.

  • Reinstate the previous Attack Speed.
  • Remove armor sliding from L1 and L2.
  • Add armor sliding to L3 and Push Attack.
  • Make Push Attack chain into L3.
  • Increase Monster damage.

This will bring it back to a strong, single target annihilator while retaining it’s strength versus pure horde and still giving options against mixed, will solidify Greatsword as the proper all-rounder and add a thematic specialization against executing monsters.

1H Sword:
In a game about teamplay and staying together, selfish one-handed weapons with no options against armor will never be relevant regardless of how many dodge length and active dodges you give them.
It’s current niche that’s being reinforced is the ability to deal with pure horde, those basic rats or zombies that come out for you after a horn every couple of minutes. While ambushes and pure horde were THP farming memes before, they pose feasible threat now, yet they don’t warrant a whole weapon to specialize around them.
When you pick Kruber’s 1H Mace or Bardin’s 1H Hammer, you know that you have options against armor and cleave with stagger against hordes. When you pick Bardin’s 1H Axe, you know that you will struggle with hordes, but have armor damage and can remedy hordes with a Drakegun. It’s incomparably better to have low horde damage, but high stagger and cleave, while retaining anti-armor, than having pure horde and no anti-armor.
The 1H alternatives to 2H weapons are also appealing for tanks that don’t chase damage overall and value their mobility and comparable defensive stats, only then you start to think about extra dodge and stamina, since you trade them for lesser, but present options in terms of versatile damage.

  • Give Push-Attack an armor piercing profile.
  • Make Push-Attack chain into L3.

I don’t see 1H sword ever becoming relevant, but if you want to take steps in those directions, you need to give it real anti-armor options. As much as you wanted your game to have horde/armor specializations, that’s not the reality of the situation.

2H Hammer:
I dislike this change mainly because it’s not a nerf or a buff, but a change that makes the weapon feel worse and changes the utility of the Push-Attack.
The animation itself is not a horizontal strike, more of a downward/diagonal slam, it doesn’t cover a lot of ground and doesn’t guarantee a heavy attack in any meaningful way. And it honestly just feels weird.
Halberd and 2H Hammer share the same Push strength, higher than other weapons, so on Footknight it was feasible to play around it and get enough stagger power on Push to break Stormvermin overheads and occasionaly do a small stagger on other armor. In this case a Push attack was a useful tool for fishing out singular Elites within a mixed horde to dispatch while stunning lighter foes with the Push itself, or following up with it after a second Push on a Shield Stormvermin to do a quick 1-2 with a light attack.
All in all, I don’t like the change of utility on the Push attack. Footknight has a whole talent in Crowd Clearer to remedy what this change tries to do, and I don’t think it’s the way.

  • Revert the Push attack.
  • Make a small, but direct buff in terms of attack speed, push strength, push arc, etc.

2H Hammer has it’s niche, it might be a bit underwhelming on other careers or, conversely, be too strong on Slayer, but that’s not a 2H Hammer problem inherently. It also might be a personal preference, but I liked the single-target profile of the Push attack.

Greastsword
I don’t have anything particular to say about the Greatsword, I think it’s in an acceptable place for now and small, quality of life and differential (light vs heavy attacks) changes are welcome.

Mace & Sword
I didn’t test it extensively, and I can’t open Armory to compare the stats (thanks Grail Knight, very cool), but if the aim of the change is to make each weapon more pronounced while keeping overall DPS and utility, it is welcome, since from my prior experience lights didn’t feel particularly different and were just a seamless single combo.
I’ve seen a thread that implied Mace & Sword could be a bit overtuned, so I’ll definetely try to give it a more in-depth go, but other than that anything that makes using a weapon a bit more thought provoking is welcome.

Halberd
Until recently I haven’t used the Halberd that much, but as it shares the Push strength with 2H Hammer, I’ve found my own spins on it and enjoyed it very much.
I view this as mostly a quality of life change. If previously if you had to think more about how you chain your attacks, now it’s more streamlined than ever before, yet it’s done in a way that’s intuitive, gives you more control over your range and just feels good to poke things from afar, letting you get close and personal when you need to.
All of this while retaining it’s most vital combos, providing some new ones and still allowing you to cancel L1, while giving you the option to chain it instead.
The most creative and interesting change in all of the Beta hands down.

Tuskgor Spear
To be honest spears are not my thing and I didn’t jump on the Tuskgor bandwagon during it’s prime, so for the longest time I didn’t know it had a Shield stagger (on Push, Push attack or both/either, still not sure) plus enhanced defence.
From what I’ve read it’s main selling points were exactly it’s defensive properties. I think toning them down is the right way to go, since the weapon itself is long range, and give people time to accustom themselves to it.

1H Mace/Mace & Shield
I see what you’re doing and it’s the right idea, but it shares the same fundamental problems as the 1H Sword.
Let me preface that whenever I use a shield (S&S mainly), I put a little bit of attack speed on it and it lets me comfortably crowd control by canceling the bash into itself without investing any stamina. Then I proceed as required - anti-horde or anti-armor combos.
Point one: shields were very underwhelming due to the overall state of the game and were slowly, but surely brought up from the ashes. If I remember corretly Sword & Shield didn’t have the moveset if has today before, you couldn’t chain L1 into H3, you couldn’t chain l2 into H2 (both chain onto themselves). The H2 was also buffed and is accessible from the aforemention combo or after a Push Attack.
The availability of Shield Bash and it’s changes during the previous Beta gave you all the control you could possibly want, redesigned combos have you strong options both against armor and a horde. Long story short: shields for Kruber were more or less fixed, but all the proper fixes and changes that the shields needed manifested only in S&S. Bardin didn’t have this problem, since his Shield & Hammer/Axe fulfilled their niche, while a S&S, much like 1H Sword, didn’t bring anything major to the table.
Point two: by extension, Mace & Shield is now just a re… slower cousin of Sword & Shield. While making the Shield Bash availible as H1 does make it more viable, it does lose it’s identity. The problem isn’t that Mace & Shield’s identity was good and unique, it didn’t have any real identity to begin with, and will continue to be that S&S cousin if you go down this path. The main reason for that is the same principle as 1H Sword. Pure horde upon horde, pure crowd control upon crowd control, very few options and low armor damage.
I don’t know how it will fare with Shield & Hammer, since Bardin’s alternative is a proper anti-armor weapon, while Kruber’s is a 1H sword. Thus, if you decide to go down this path, much like S&S and S&A are different, S&H and S&M will be different, resulting in 4 properly different pairings.
What S&M needs is it’s own identity, and one way to do it, in my opinion, to make it a more specialized anti-armor weapon with less horde damage, a lot less versatility than S&S while reverting the H1 Shield Bash. Thematically, I never understood while blunt shield weapon are so bad against armor, and even S&S stab does twice as much as a Push-Bash. 1H Mace ties into it with it’s own spin.

  • Revert H1 to a sweep, H2 to a Bash.
  • Switch 1H Mace and Mace & Shield light movesets.
  • Give a proper armor-damage profile, or share the July 17’s buff between Push Attack, L3 and L4.
  • Make Push Attack chain into L3 (same as now, but the 1H Mace L3).

What this does is give 1H Mace a proper horde moveset, without the clunky single target attacks and uppercut, removing the need to cancel after L2 or doing a Push Attack, and keeping it’s anti-armor, single target damage on heavies where it belongs.
Conversely, it gives Mace & Shield essentially the same July 17 toolset, but visually it’s more fitting, as it will look like and overhead -> uppercut -> overhead, and Mace & Shield would welcome concentrated single-target damage, while it’s unfitting on 1H Mace lights. It makes L4 fulfill the same role as L3, giving an extra anti-armor attack before resetting.
All this while retaining the basic L1 - L2 - H2 anti-horde combo and giving you an ability to access Shield Bash after L1. The single-target armor damage needs to surpass S&S stab, but in return Shield Bash returns to H2.
TLDR: this is a very roundabout way of making L4 also pierce armor and increasing armor damage on those attacks. But, in my opinion, it’s very fitting at the background of changing 1H Mace and S&M movesets, giving 1H Mace a proper light moveset as a bonus.

Talents. July 14/17th

I don’t know how much of this thread influences the changes, but I see a couple of ideas floating around here implemented, so I am glad you’re giving various ideas a chance.

I personally like most of what you’ve done, so I’ll leave things out that I don’t find particularly troublesome and focus on what remains.

  • Crowd Clearer.

Still a litttle redundant in my opinion, but if your stats say otherwise I can see it. Usually, if I need attack speed, I run Bull of Ostland, but with stronger off-tank alternatives in the last row this could see a lot of use, plus a smaller buff to Counter-Punch would directly synergize. On both of these down below.
Addendum: I see a lot of discussion on viability of Kruber as a pure tank, and while I’ve talked on this at length and have my own spin on it, it’s not a bad idea to reinstate 40% Stamina Regeneration on Strong Attacks in one way or another, or a flat Stamina Regen talent, and I wouldn’t mind it in place of Crowd Clearer. It could be put in some other slot as to not compete on row 2, or so it could be coupled with Stagger power, but a choice between Stagger strength and Stagger sustain could be acceptable.

  • Auras, aka row 20

Once again, I dont know if the double aura was taken from here, but I want to reiterate the intention:
I wanted to put a double aura talent and buff auras in a fun way to make it a viable alternative. Whether it was good enough or not, and whether Crowd Clearer warranted removal, was highly debatable.
The way it was implemented into Rock of Reikland doesn’t solve the main aura problem: it’s negligible.
Let me reiterate: nobody thinks about Kruber’s aura when he’s in the game. You never think “If I stay close I’ll get 15/20% DR, or if I stay close I’ll be better at blocking by 20%”. If people have a BCR build, 20% can is significant in raising it to 80%, but it still does very okay at 60%. If people don’t run BCR, it’s negligible. To doubling the aura on a negligible Talent doesn’t solve the problem. When FK is in the game, he basically just “forces” his buffs onto allies by existing and nobody acknowledges them at the time.

That’s Bloody Teamwork:
As proposed and explained previously, a stacking DR buff of 30% on your whole team can be very significant now, you’re invited to actively participate and position together for a meaningful buff. I do believe people will need to play around it for a bit and get used to it to feel it’s impact, but I can see how doubling the aura as a separate, non-aurial Talent or a smaller, general buff to it’s radius could switch this from a situational, positional Talent to an overpowered effectively all-time buff. Depending on how situational it is and how people adjust to it, I could see it capped/changed to a 25% cap, but we’ll really need to test DR changes and the Talent itself, so no judgement yet.

Tag Team:
So, as a result of That’s Bloody Teamwork, you have a separate Talent that’s at it’s most effective at all times, provides an offensive edge and instead of heavily benefitting the aura, focuses it on one ally, that’s the other way to solve the issue. Despite the DR stacking changes I can see it as a bit heavy haned, though. While in comparison to a theoretical 30% DR team-buff, 50% on a single target doesn’t seem that drastic, mind you it’s always at it’s full and provides a power buff, I could see it toned down to at least 40%, or a thematical 45% as a sum of three basic Protective Presence buffs.

Rock of the Reikland:
In comparison to the two other reworks this seems very pale, even if you can apply it further. The main problem lies in two sides of a medal.

  • Nobody actively uses or acknowledges the aura.
    Addendum: I’ve heard one person say they find the Talent useful, especially with bots. So, some people do acknowledge it, it would be rude to suggest otherwise. I personally still find it lacking and it’s a good reminder that the hot takes are mine alone.
  • If you pick this Talent, you pick it for your own build and benefit, aura benefit is rudimentary.
    This might be a bit much, but another rework is in order because of the third underlying problem:
  • Two of the auras are defensive, just with different flavor.
    It used to be the case that you could pick 20% BCR or extra 5% DR. Both are negligible, were mainly for your own benefit and fullfilled the same role: you are slightly better at getting pummeled.
    With two new reworks, one being a strong single-target buff, the other a strong team buff, this is still making you slightly better at getting pummeled.
    To make it more outlined, I propose a change that will give it a different supportive edge based on offense instead of defense, will fit the character’s design of strong presence and will also benefit from double range without breaking it:

Inspiring Presence:
Protective Presence range is doubled and it increases healing received by 20/25/30/XX%.

This will support your team’s offensive capability, help you rebuild or keep momentum after getting low, and the range will benefit people doing their job further away from you.
Granted, this will probably be weird with Zealot, but Zealot and THP in general is another basket of fruit. Depending on the numbers, it shouldn’t be allowed overlap with Merc too much or ultimates that grant THP, but could synergize with them.
Point being: there are ways to make it overpowered, perhaps it’s not the most elegant design, but something that benefits offensive actions of your team or buffs something other than being pummeled is an interesting space to explore to make the aura more attractive to be interacted with.

  • Charge Reset.
    As alternatives are a bit more appealing now, I find it as less overbearing of a Talent in itself. While I can compromise that making it only proc on fallen allies is a bit too situational, I wouldn’t mind seeing a very small cooldown on it, or at least it not proccing on yourself. Buffing Counter-Punch in one way or another would also go a long way towards making the whole row relatively comparable.

  • Counter-Punch:
    I like that all utility is put into one row, all of them are interesting and you can pick what you’re most interested in, but, once again, in the same vein Counter-Punch is overshadowed.
    It could be returned to it’s former glory, but, considering that if Rock of the Reikland is reworked, you can additionally/either place it’s previous buff onto Counter-Punch to reinforce it’s design and make Crowd Clearer more tempting to synergize with by extension.

Counter-Punch:
Grants 20% Block Cost Reduction. Blocking an attack removes the Stamina cost of blocking for 1/2 seconds.

  • I FEEL like a Battering Ram, aka row 30.
    The most controversial one, so a disclaimer is in order once again:
    I trust the team’s judgement to incorporate feedback as they see fit based different sources and their own visions, hence I will not debate the validity of my claims. My claim is that the new Charge is overtuned and his base Charge should not be incorporated with any new passive buffs. If the base Charge is found lacking, it should be tweaked in cooldown and fixed in terms of it’s jank where it’s present. I would be glad to be proven wrong in the end.

I’ve put my thoughts in greater detail before, I’ll outline a proper row I can see as being an acceptable design choice based on current iterations and present or removed mechanics.
My main point is that the new Valiant Charge packs too many eggs in one basket, so my idea is to distribute the new and old buffs between rows to equalize Talents while also keeping them as strong modifiers of the base Valiant Charge.

Numb to Pain:
Valiant Charge grants invulnerability up to 3 seconds after the Charge and allows to pass through great foes.
The “Get in there” part of the battering ram. I’ve found 5 seconds Invulnerability to be overtuned on it’s previous iteration, but I’ve found 3 seconds to be meaningless. Much like Unchained’s damage dealt reduction on flaming enemies didn’t combo well with Searing Grasp due to the debuff fading, in much the same way a lot of Invulnerability is wasted due to control. While it is still situationally good against ranged specials and damage overtime, combining it with the ability to get into the thick of the fight and utilize invincibility to it’s fullest can give the edge it needs to stand on it’s own other than jank protection for when your Valiant Charge doesn’t proc properly.

Trample.
Doubles the width and length of Valiant Charge’s impact. Enemies take +20% damage for 10 seconds.
Brings back the old Trample along with better control. Modifies the basic Valiant Charge to be bigger and better, for those who find the raw crowd control in it’s current iteration lacking. Still requires positioning and timing, but rewards it accordingly. While a lot of abilities like Mercenary’s and Witch Hunter’s shouts provide crowd control, it is significantly weaker, but it’s only seen on Chaos Warriors since otherwise trash units and specials are knocked down anyway. Giving a broader impact range while retaining the strength of the knockdown could make it more appealing along other crowd control.

Bull of Ostland:
It’s just a perfect little pill for us hybrid masochists.

Talents. Pre July 14-th. Legacy.

A pile of my questionable hot takes intended as personal feedback on all things Footknight. While my aim is to describe my experience directly to the team, feel free to chime in.
To be expanded and redacted as hot takes on weapons and talents accumulate.

Disclaimer:
In my opinion Footknight is a very well balanced career that struggles to find it’s niche. While performing adequately in a nutshell, other careers, weapons and abilities can overshadow what he brings to the table.
Without a major overhaul, the right nudge can bring him where he needs to be. My goal is to find that niche while staying true to his intended design.
While attempting to stay within bounds of existing talents and mechanics, I will take some broad sweeps on what I envision as a good Footknight design, take it with a grain of salt.

First iteration:
Before Winds of Magic, Footknight had an array of personal buffs, ranging from extra Health and bonus Stamina to uninterruptible attacks and extra Power.
Onslaught, Counter-Attack, Drillmaster and Glory Hound provided offensive, brawler perks.
Bulwark, Build Momentum, Battle Drill and Hold Ground provided defensive, tanky perks.
Bastion of the Reik, Regroup, Defensive Formation and A Life of Battle provided sustain and utility.
Obviously, this is exaggerated and generalized, but you had a range of choice between offense, defense and something inbetween, yet some, if not most of these talents were underwhelming.

Second iteration:
After Winds of Magic Footknight received an overhaul which redefined him into a more definitive, yet still fluid role.
Back Off, Ugly!, Staggering Force, Bulwark, Rock of the Reikland/Defensive Formation, Counter-Punch and Numb to Pain promoted a viable defensive playstyle, encouraging shield use.
Bloody Unstoppable!, Have at Thee!/Crowd Clearer, Mainstay, Taal’s Champion, That’s Bloody Teamwork and Trample/Bull of Ostland! provided a more offensive edge with a nudge towards either horde or Elite clearing.
The career found a strong niche within a shield playstyle and had weaker, but still possble hybrid alternatives.

Current iteration (Big Balance Beta, work in progress):

Problems:

  1. Encourages a strict playstyle.
  2. Complicated and overtuned.
    Instead of buffing, you’ve overhauled Talents to varying effect, which scrambles and disorganizes the whole tree.
  • Have at Thee! - (Reworked)
    Staggering an elite enemy grants Kruber and his allies 100% increased cooldown regeneration rate for 0.5 seconds.
    Strips Footknight of one of the few offensive Talents.
    Other Talents on this row define his playstyle and are too important to skip.

  • Taal’s Champion - (Reworked)
    Kruber takes 50% of the damage the closest ally takes instead of them. This damage can be blocked. Effect dissipates if Kruber falls below 10% health. Removes passive aura.
    Unneccesarily complicated passive you have little control over.
    Protective Presence is not powerful enough to warrant aura removal with any meaningful buff.

  • It’s Hero Time - (Reworked)
    Resets the cooldown of Charge when an ally is incapacitated.
    Overtuned, procs on all incapacitations: special grabs and boss grabs, including yourself.
    Oversimplifies the Valiant Charge to the point of making it’s cooldown and situational management irrelevant with it’s already short cooldown.

  • Trample - (Reworked)
    Doubles the width of Kruber’s charge and allows him to charge through great foes.
    Overtuned, making other sidegrades irrelevant, combining both the impact Stagger and mobility with added width, nullifying positional and situational management.

Goals:
Fill a niche according to character design.
Allow several viable playstyles.

Footknight is designed as a durable frontliner, able enhance his crowd control and protective capabilities or personal survivability and offensive edge, mixing and matching as appropriate.
The following is a farfetched theorycrafted build of what I see as solving some of his current problems while maintaining his original core and not going out of bounds.
Considering the previous iterations, it is roughly divided into three playstyles:

  1. Challenger: an offensive edge, spin on a hybrid playstyle.
  2. Protector: shield and crowd control.
  3. Warden: powerful utility and buffs.

1 (THP). Back Off, Ugly! | Bloody Unstoppable! | Templar’s Rally
2 (Playstyle). Staggering Force | Have At Thee! | Vigilance
3 (Stagger). Bulwark | Mainstay | Enhanced Power
4 (Aura). Rock of the Reikland | That’s Bloody Teamwork | Don’t Die on Me
5 (Utility). Hero Time! | Counter-Punch | Taal’s Champion
6 (Ultimate). Numb to Pain | Trample | Bull of Ostland!

  • Have At Thee - (Reworked)
    Staggering an Elite increases Power by 5%. Stacks up to 5 times.
    A powerful offensive buff along Mercenary’s and Grail Knight’s, but is specific to Elites and requires build-up.
    Synergizes with Valiant Charge, allowing you to get 5 stacks immideately if used appropriately.

  • Vigilance - (New, replaces Crowd Clearer)
    Doubles radius of Protective Presence.
    A Talent to make it viable and more interesting to play around your aura, comes with relevant aura Talents.
    Bull of Ostland solves all of your attack speed problems in a more efficent manner and doesn’t take an important second row Talent. In tandem with aura Talents, I hope to make this a viable alternative.

  • That’s Bloody Teamwork - (Modified, replaces Defensive Formation)
    Increases Damage Reduction from Protective Presence by 5% for each nearby ally.
    An attempt to make Defensive Formation more interactive and change That’s Bloody Teamwork from a self buff which, unlike Bardin’s simillar Power increase, rarely comes into play if you stick together, apart from AoE damage.

  • Don’t Die on Me - (New, replaces Taal Champion’s previous slot)
    Protective Presence prevents downed allies from dying.
    An alternative interactive aura that can become really powerful with extra radius, but serves as a safety net for hybrid playstyles that cannot afford to directly charge in due to build limitations or simply an overwhelming situation.
    Can buy enough time to deal with problems at hand or give an ally enough time to come for a revive.

  • Hero Time! - (Modified)
    Resets cooldown on Charge when an ally is downed.
    By making it specific to downed allies you can guarantee that you have a Charge in a pinch when you need it while preventing making it too spammy, also preventing weird laggy interactions where you stagger a special just as they grab you, proccing the animation and the Talent due to ping essentially for free.

  • Counter-Punch - (Restored)
    Blocking an attack removes the Stamina cost of pushing for 2 seconds.

  • Taal’s Champion - (Modified, replaces That’s Bloody Teamwok’s previous slot)
    Staggering an Elite enemy increases the cooldown generation rate of the party by 100% for 0.5 seconds.
    This Talent fits more along the line of other personal utility buffs like Charge reset of Stamina cost removal.

  • Trample - (Modified)
    Allows Kruber to charge through great foes.
    The added mobility to get in to a downed ally or get out of a pinch is already worth it.
    Modify the breakthrough stagger on Elites (as you charge through them) to be significant, but not as powerful as the impact.
    There are enough damage amplification effects, barely any of which stack with each other, so sparing Footknight and loading him with some damage upfront with Have at Thee while not gimping his survivability with previous Taal’s Champion is a reasonable compromise.

  • Numb to Pain - (Modified)
    Valiant Charge grants invulnerability for it’s duration and 3 seconds after it ends.
    To keep Numb to Pain competetive with a strong Attack Speed buff and modified Trample a quality of life change is in order.

7 Likes

Sure lets force people to play certain characters only one way and not another because that’s what it’s all about.

As I said numerous times talents should accentuate characters and not be their main target how a certain character should be played, that should be left up to the skill level of the player.

More diversity instead of forcing us to play a character only a certain way.
Guess people generally don’t want longer playability because that’s what you are sacrificing.

5 Likes

The fact that off-specs are being removed worries me. I think that you should be able to build a more damage-oriented FK if you wish, but that said damage can only take place on small bursts or come at a cost of giving up group viability (so, you give up granting the team extra damage on stagger on exchange for you dealing some extra damage, for example).

3 Likes

THIS!

So frustrating to see. Talents in the game ranging between:

  • “Increases attack speed by 5%”
    or
  • “Reduces damage taken by 5% for 15 seconds after taking damage from venting Overcharge also reduces Overcharge from Blood Magic by 16.6%. Stacks up to 3 times.”

Some of the minor stat boost Talents could use some changes. They don’t have to be big changes. Grail Knight has a great Talent that buffs push angle and stamina regeneration.

I’d really like to see less complicated additions, they made some great changes in the WoM beta. Like, WHC gained “push enemy > gain stamina bonus for 2 seconds”. Easy to understand, and a good Talent.

And again, Grail Knight has some amazing Talents, too. “Kills increase power by 10% for 10 seconds, stacks 3 times.” “50% of damage taken is regenerated as THP after 5 seconds”. They’re simple, easy to understand, and impactful.

Best examples of classes with the most well-designed Talent selections (in my opinion) are Mercenary, WHC, and Grail Knight. Not too simple, not too complicated, impactful, and fun.

3 Likes

Armored man with a big weapon is kinda what a dismounted knight should be. Plate armor = no shield needed anymore. So IMO there should be talents to make not being a dedicated tank a viable choice.

9 Likes

You’re telling me. I don’t know if I worded myself badly, but what I am describing is the current meta and the BBB implications.

First being the fact that a Footknight is just a weaker Mercenary is you build him as a hybrid, and, conversely, he benefits from the shields the most. Still, he had options and you chould build him as a hybrid if you wanted. This described the current state.

Second being that BBB strips him of the remainder of the Talents that allowed him to be a proper hybrid, all that’s left are attack speed buffs. He’s got some new toys, maybe even too many, but it pretty much now locks him into a Tank role.

Best case scenario is that he keeps some new toys and get a few old toys back, allowing multiple playstyles.

I’ll probably elaborate on it further in the OP, but something like an improved Have at Thee, while putting the reworked one in place of Crowd Clearer, could do the trick.

Have at Thee
Staggering Elites increases power by 5% for 5 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times.

Neat and simple, not Mercenary levels availibility and no Mercenary’s extra cleave or crit, not as easy to stack as Grail Knight 30% on kills, tricky to get and maintain but rewarding specifically in crowds of armored Elites.
The idea is that is has to proc and synergize with Valiant Charge. Knocking down 5 Elites down at once will start you off on full stacks and keep it easier to maintain throuought the Elite encounter.

2 Likes

The way you decribed it, it sounded like you where arguing for meta builds and against hybrid builds.

My bad then and thanks for elaborating

In general, I agree… but the last part?! Ugh! “New” Valiant Charge is the only thing that makes FK valuable… it’s so fundamental for FK’s niche, that it should be part of the ult itself. Not a talent.

Please, dear friend, don’t let me to read this :cry:… Current Valiant Charge is how a tank’s charge should be. Finally. After two years. Do you see a downed ally? You can reach and help him. Before, a single SV, could stop you.
It should be fast, safe, immediate! We are talking about a rude tank… when my help is needed, I can’t wait that enemies “stack” each other like an alignment of planets. Often we haven’t the time (none can say when and IF enemies correctly stack).
For this reason many players are saying to make the “new Trample” as default.

4 Likes

Then I am not a part of many players, I think it’s way overtuned and there is work to be done.
I won’t go in-depth on it now, but I remember you and from what I remember my hot takes and your hot takes differ rather wildly.

I’ll throw in my five cents, many players will throw in theirs and we’ll see what comes of it.

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I couldn’t be more in disagreement. That is what FK must do. Stagger. Otherwise he will always be a weaker IB.

Moreover, not to be rude, but those situations I wrote are objectively a problem that nullifies FK’s duty. A single SV can’t prevent to reach a downed ally.

But sure, I follow your logic, we are all throwing our five cents.

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Iam sorry, but aslong this nonsense happens the last row is never gonna see anything but Numb to Pain. It simply is far too frustrating to eat damage like that.
I personally like Crowed Clearer on M&S and the silly attack speed nerf on Executioners also make it seem the way to go for that one.

The removal of the Damage Talents make no sense. The damage share Talent could have easily eaten the Defensive Formation. Thats basically a dead Talent, while the 10% damage were actually quite huge with the addition of either Have at Thee, or Crowd Clearer, depending on the weapon.

Hero Time is a bit silly right now, but I also dont think it should only active on downs. A reasonable Internal CD should do the trick quite nicely.

That Counter Punch didnt get touched (yet?) is quite the sucker punch. Either get rid of it, turn it into a standard stamina recovery Talent, or reinstate it to two seconds. The way it is right now is just complete nonsense.

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Some suggestions to make Footknight more competitive with his other careers:

Buff his passive dmg reduction aura in range and effect & replace No Guts No glory with Staggering Force

Having 2 dmg reduction passives seems redundant and by giving him innate more stagger he can do his job of controlling engagements better

Replace the talent Staggering Force (passive) with the old talent Have at Thee!

This change would give him access to either more power, more a.s. or more cd regen for his team

Replace mainstay with Smiter

This would allow FK to be more offensive and contribute more

Buff Rock of the Reikland back to 30% (reverts wom nerf)

If Handmaiden is allowed 90% block cost reduction then why shouldn’t a frontline career have this?

Change Defensive formation to give more stamina regen

5% more damage reduction hardly seems worth it and by giving him access to a stamina regen talent he can push (cc) more often

Rework Damage Soak to draw more aggro

rather than enforce taking damage it should enforce avoiding it, make this talent draw more aggro so that other players are less likely to be attacked

Buff Counter-Punch to be a guaranteed free push rather than free push for 1 second

the duration of this talent was nerfed because 2 seconds allowed for too much safety so rather than buffing it, the talent should just give one free push

Implement Wide Charge (goes through everything) & Numb to Pain (invulnerable while ulting) into the base ability

only one reason: he’s a bloody battering ram

I’d also personally give him access to the spear & rework the walk it off talent on Merc but i’m drifting off.

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About It’s Hero Time:

Exactly! Having the Charge “ready” when a Special/Disabler captures an ally is so precious and it fits very well with FK’s style.

Great post! Especially these points:

Implement Wide Charge (goes through everything) & Numb to Pain (invulnerable while ulting) into the base ability

Buff his passive dmg reduction aura in range and effect & replace No Guts No glory with Staggering Force

Totally agree.

I’ll remark on this once and try to keep it concise since there is little point on clashing two different philosophies.

I seem to be in a minority against a circlejerk of “make Footknight great again”, and I’ll stand by that. It is an exaggeration and there are neat little quality of life changes and smart buffs floating around, but mostly it boils down to “Make Footknight able to charge through a mountain to be anywhere anytime he wants while sending Pactsworn into a stratosphere”, because he’s a battering ram and that’s his design. And I don’t think that is his design.

What people seem to want is to smother Footknight in powerful passives that used to make up his Talents, and slap even more powerful Talents on top of that, seemingly in retaliation as if Footknight has been bullied at highschool and it’s time to take revenge.

What I believe is that it is a dangerous line, making Valiant Charge into a Handmaiden dash on steroids, giving him Talents for aggro that is basically an Ironbreaker’s ultimate, and instead of giving him a niche, turning him into a bully himself that occupies space of other careers.

If his charge is clunky and you need Numb to Pain because it didn’t stun Chaos Warriors, maybe it’s a problem with game mechanics and not Footknight’s design, and needs a fix instead of a buff. Maybe someone can do something incredibly powerful, maybe that’s a balance problem that lies with that particular career.

Footknight is my favorite career, and a Big Balance Beta is an exciting time, so I understand like any other the desire for major changes. Yet it’s one of the few careers I enjoy where I can’t be braindead and steamroll everything, it’s not in any way weaker than Ironbreaker (sans Flamethrower) and will do fine with correct tweaks and without major overhauls.
I would rather not have another Merc/Grail Knight everyone and their grandma plays because it’s meta.

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This is actually hilarious. It does kind of feel that way though.

What is he meant to be about anyway? He’s a big dude in plate armour that charges at enemies and knocks them over. So he should be the ultimate career for control, for all enemy types, in my opinion at least.
A big problem is that so many other careers already bring enough control. I’m not sure how to even start tackling the larger issue there.

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Let me throw another five cents, like you did.

None, here, is saying “Ingrett is against any buff, he hates FK”… in my opinion, if players are defending the New Charge, it’s NOT only to keep the idea “FK needs some generic love”… but because the new Charge is exactly what FK needs.

Sorry if I repeat myself but if one single Stormvermin can prevent FK to reach a downed ally… if you charge a patrol/mixed horde and you see staggered only 1-2 armored guys (because often you can’t wait that enemies stack or simply enemies don’t stack)… FK will NEVER be good.

Now, I see you disagree about my though “IB > FK”.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want start an infinite discussion on this, even because it would be a little bit off topic… but let me spend few words. Let’s (briefly) see what they bring in the battlefield.

  • IB (tank build):

    • more toughness (Groumril Armor can save him from an attack that can oneshot FK);
    • more damage reduction;
    • Gromril Curse (can save him from disablers… and disablers are really danger for a tank);
    • more stamina regen (and we all know how much stamina is important);
    • Impenetrable (literally a game saving);
  • FK (tank build):

    • more mobility/stagger thanks Valiant Charge;

      • BUT we have seen that one only armored enemy can nullify these advantages (stopping the charge);
    • an aura to give bonus to his mates;

      • BUT auras are so small that they aren’t really considerable;

How we can see, the new Charge doesn’t “break” FK making him too good or a brainless career… this buff simply makes “effective” a FK’s advantage that should have been present/valid from the beginning/day one.

And I know you aren’t saying “Every buff is bad, let’s bring FK back to the live version”… but, in my opinion, let to FK to charge through armored enemies is the only way that FK has to fulfills his duty.

Moreover I can’t understand how, stagger a patrol for some seconds, can be considered “too strong”… when IB can make literally harmless the patrol for 15 seconds (or “”“only”"" 10 -anyway still more than FK- if you want make harmless a boss too)… yep, FK’s cooldown is shorter, but you don’t fight a patrol every 30 seconds…
And I could continue saying how IB’s ult stacks the patrol… so the group can kill them easily. And thanks Crushing Counter-Blow they obtain 10% power too.

But I repeat: like said, I’m just throwing my cents (I love you prhase)… I’m not saying “You are wrong”; just explaing my point of view. I’m not a fan of infinite discussions.

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Regarding the suggestion of making charge go through tougher enemies by default: I think it’s fair to have it go through stormvermin and maulers, but I don’t think it should go through chaos warriors and bosses. To compensate, making the impact area (when the charge stops) larger seems fair, so that you can more reliably stun the things right in front of you.

With W I D E charge in its current iteration you can literally run through an entire chaos patrol plus a boss and knock them all on their asses. That, I think, is probably a little much.

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I respect your opinions, but I keep saying that IB too can do it… even better.

I could (sadly) accept that a boss can stop your charge… but one Chaos Warrior? Totally nope. High contents (Fow, weaves, deeds… but also simple cata runs) are full of CWs… if one CW could stop the charge, we would return in that situation where FK can’t reach a downed ally… where a charge staggers only few enemies… in practice, on several occasions, FK would fail in his work.

Now, just to be super-clear, in my opinion, I repeat that beta FK needs a BUFF… not a nerfbut, if Fatshark really must to tuned down Valiant Charge… an idea could be add a maximum number of “exceeded” CW. Example: the charge goes through 4 CWs… the 5th will stop you.

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I have no idea what are you on about.

If you want to dash towards teammates on a moment’s notice pick Handmaiden and be done with it. Kruber is not a nurse of Shallya, his “design” is not a revival fairy, however much you keep telling yourself that. Charge can be good at that situationally, but it’s main point is knocking fools on their ass.

If you’re so bothered about a single Stormvermin blocking your path and you can’t imagine pushing it away with a shield or manuevering around it, nobody is talking about taking away charging through Elites, it just doesn’t have to also slam everything to the ground, and even though the visual of Footknight phasing through intenstines of a Chaos Spawn and Copperfielding himself on the other side irks me, now you have that as an option, albeit I wish it was toned down.

Once again, the ability to get to a teammade in need of a moment’s notice is Handmaiden prerogative, not Footknights. Footknight’s prerogative is to send that garbage packing before it snatches you that far, he even has a nice cozy aura inviting you to stick by.

And then there’s the infamous all-star Ironbreaker who overshadows Footknight in every aspect. He can aggro things. Every two minutes. Cool. No, really. Footknight has a massive knockdown every 30 seconds that doubles for mobility that renders enemies immobile, actually creates space and sends them into Stagger two as a cherry on top, while also performing better with a Shield due to increased Stagger power, should you decide to pick it. No idea what you need to align, his impact arc is incredibly wide. And that’s cool as well. Both Ironbreaker and Footknight are cool and do their own thing.

I respect your opinion as well, but if you’re going to bring Ironbreaker comparisons and implying that Footknight is somehow not competetive as some sort of fact, I’m going to debate that.

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