Knifes allow you to just walk away from enemies, in a straight line.
If that is not op, idk what is.
Entirely independent of the offensive capabilities.
A zealot can literally equip a knife and walk away from any danger (even without invis).
That should not be possible with any weapon.
Force swords had infinite dodges and got them removed. Infinite dodges were vastly slower for movement and were kinda difficult to use for longer distances since you can only dodge in any direction that you do not look at.
What the knife has, is much better than infinite dodges ever were, and so easy to use that it takes no practice.
That’s most weapons with a decent sprint modifier to be fair.
But yeah. In general I think sprint was a mistake in this type of game. Dagger just happens to over capitalize on it, and will trivialize basically almost anything on zealot specifically because you are immune to stuns and therefore any staggers.
Infinite dodges were op as hell though. You can just side dodge forever, and kite that way while not being trackable by enemies.
It’s basically the only weapon that allows to pull of team wipe reses when stam tanking is not an option, which is often the case.
You just kite everything to one corner, as far as possible and then sprint back to your fallen teammates and res them till enemies ctah up.
I did it and i saw others do.
Knives mobility is also helpful to release teammates from trappers nets, before their toughness broke.
Of course the knife is overpowered. That’s by design.
In the world of Warhammer 40k, a knife would not outperform the Thunder Hammer. But remember that this is Darktide. And its game designers want to achieve some form “balance” and make all weapons “equal”. So they have to increase the power of the knife and decrease the power of the Thunder Hammer.
The issue with overtuned mobility is exacerbated by sliding/dodge sliding extending sprinting distance/time and it’s very unhealthy for the game.
I think I overlooked how much of a problem it is since changing it to consume stamina or at least to prolong the start of stamina regeneration (both of which would be logical changes) would hit Psyker and Veteran way harder than Zealot (which is mostly in need of reeling in even tho it’s kinda one of his supposed focus).
Yeah, and there will be no need to have dumb unfun anti rush mechanics like knockback/stagger on enemy shots, if slide was somehow restricted and become a tool you need to utilize properly, instead of a regular button mashing movement thing
My only problem with the knife boils down to rending. Knives, and bladed weapons in general really, should struggle (comparatively) against carapace IMHO. If uncanny strike didn’t exist, I’d probably be fine with it. I’m not a fan of ruthless backstab either, but it’s a lot more situational, so less of a problem.
As for mobility, it could perhaps be toned down slightly, but it’s also kind of a requirement if you’re going to maintain the knife as a weapon that gets pushed around by aggro, as opposed to one that can hold its ground.
But I’ve only ever run knife regularly on zealot, so my take is probably influenced by that.
well people should learn to describe what they think is OP. An interaction between talents and a blessing of a weapon doesn’t make this weapon OP.
Like the interaction between a class and a weapon does not make it OP (Veteran + revolver).
If you think bleed stacks are too strong, talk about bleed stacks… and don’t ask for a (unneeded) knife nerf.
Tbh, I don’t use flesh tearer, lacerate and mercy killer.
I prefer executor / uncanny strike… but riposte and precognition are not bad also. Worst is haymaker, can’t understand the purpose of this blessing. People made threads like this one to ask for a nerf cause dagger could, in 3% of the heavy hits, kill ogryns…
Well, except for mauler, now this blessing is totally useless. Considering how many maulers you encounter in a mission, you should choose rending blessings.
My problem with the knife isn’t so much its performance…it’s the basic nature of its existence.
Knives always come off to me as try-hard fantasy weapons in shooters, particularly the “ultramobile weakspot megacrit” interpretation. Yes, even in a space-fantasy game. Knives aren’t really…weapons, at least in and of themselves, they’re tools. Knife fighting IRL is about the dumbest fight you can engage in, because far more than swords or other weapons with reach, such a fight is essentially certain to end in both fighters bleeding. There’s a great line in one of my Longsword manuals that titles a picture of two dudes fighting with knives and the text basically says “here they fight with knives, may god have mercy on them” because it’s assumed they’re both gonna get cut. When you see knives issued to actual soldiers, the expectation is that it’s really there to open packages and cut rope and the like and not as an actual fighting implement. Trying to wield a knife against someone with something longer, like a sword or mace or even a bare (but empty) rifle, much less double-axe-wielding manaics, is probably going to encounter problems with simple reach and actually making contact with the target or parrying blows. A Rapier or light Sabre is going to be dramatically faster in terms of cutting/thrusting speed (with a point that long you can get real fast) and be far better more mobile in the fightspace and able to defend itself properly, and deal far more devastating and precise blows with substantially more control. A knife being the ultimate dodge tool is particularly silly as you have to be so much closer to your opponent due to the weapon’s lack of reach in order to utilize it that your ability to void and dodge is substantially diminished.
Even in 40k, knives are usually about the most pathetic weapons you can get, often not even having a distinct statline but just covered under generic “close combat weapons”, and are usually visually portrayed much larger and meaner than what we’ve got in Darktide.
As far as Darktide itself goes, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with knives balance-wise. They’re not my thing in terms of playstyle, I don’t think they’re particularly awful or overpowered. In game terms I think at worst they enable/incentivize some poor player behavior, but that’s about it. My bigger issue is that of all the cool weapons in the 40k universe, making basic knives a huge part of the melee kit feels like a Game Dev having played far too much CoD/Battlefield (where knives are one-shot trophy kills) and hamfisted knives in there for their own sake, as opposed to really looking at knives within the 40k universe.
knife has 1:stupidly high mobility and 2:dismal attack reach, which means the best way to get any utility out of them is to aggressively micromanage the group of enemies you have targeting you. the micromanaging itself means you cannot afford putting aside moments to check where your teammates are/what their situation is, which leads to knife mains being oblivious to when they should temporaally disengage to huck a grenade or swap to their gun to make other enemies go defensive for the sake of greater team effiency.
this leads to the clutch cycle, where poor team interaction cause the group to nearly wipe, luck into one of the players being able to clutch, then continuing with the team interations that caused the near-wipe confident that they’re playing at a much higher level than they actually are leading to more wipes overall.
a big part of dealing with specials and elites efficently is noticing when your better off leaving them to the guy already targeting them and instead peeling the trash mobs they’ve got distracting them.