I wanna gather some thoughts about ironbreaker from some knowledgable tank players.

Before i didn’t really play ironbreaker, i played him sometimes with dual hammers and i thought he was strong already. Now with the BBB they buffed him alot in my opinion, especially the attack speed talent is very very strong. So my questions are:

  • Did Ib ‘need’ the attack speed and more offensive side?
  • What are your thoughts on the ‘kills reduce ultimate’ talent, should a tank have such a talent?
  • Do you think he is in a good place right now or in need of some changes or nerfs, if so what would it be?
  • maybe something else you wanna suggest or mention.

Personally i love ib right now, i already thought he was strong before, but especially with the attack speed gromril he is alot of fun. But i have to admit that he is very strong and maybe a bit too much.

No wrong answers zone below.

I honestly don’t think that the new talent is THAT strong. You don’t really control it and it can pop-off at pretty uneventful times. It also competes with Gromril Armor curse which is extremely powerful.

Overall I’m still happy with IB, although I’ve seen people say the new Drakki Wrath talent is not good, which is a concern because it limits build variety and a play-style that a lot of people enjoy.

P.S. What’s up with Crushing Counter Blow? That talent blows (pun intended).

That’s true. From playing the attack speed was pretty controlable for me, but sometimes it got triggerd when i didn’t want it

Yea i’ve seen players complain about that one aswell. I didn’t really have any experience with that as i use crossbow all the time. Do you know what the exact issue with it is?

I don’t really know, when i tried it i just ulted, blocked 5 attacks and started attacking again. Pretty weird to use it and idk if it has alot of impact or not.

He didn’t need the attack speed so much as he needed a viable alternative to gromril curse, which was just so above and beyond any other pick in that section it made it a non choice. So now he has got a somewhat viable alternative, that also offers an alternate playstyle. I have been playing exclusively with the AS buff, and it’s refreshing to have another option. Adds a little risk/reward to what is generally a very low risk class. Used correctly, it’s like a second ult, and between that and taking the damage bonus on his actual ult make him feel more like slayer to play when the need arises. I.e., more fun.

And yes, I think the ult regen is totally necessary, as it allows you to build either purely tanky, or to go a bit more aggressive with a damage ult, cooldown reduction and attack speed. Taking that talent away just makes the class less interesting as a whole imo. Assuming that a tank isn’t also allowed to dish out some damage doesn’t make sense to me.

The drake fire buff is really nice with the pistols. I know I’ve seen a LOT of negativity surrounding this one, but personally I’ve been using the drake fire weapons exclusively throughout the duration of the beta, as I find the pistols especially to finally be competitive with his other options. Which formerly was pretty much just crossbow. Or crossbow. Or handgun if your aim was trash. Or crossbow.

The flamecannon is still the flamecannon. I don’t really have an opinion on it. I choose not to use it in public lobbies due to the anti-fun factor, and pretty much only break it out when me and the boys are playing modded and trying to see who can rack up the biggest damage numbers.

The 2h hammer push attack buff was a godsend for IB. It was already a very strong weapon with him, but having a push attack with so much cleave made it extremely forgiving in tight situations. Personally, as a fanboy of the 2h hammer, I was pleased. Pick is also quite viable and felt surprisingly good to use, but you are definitely going to suffer in certain situations. 2h axe is still 2h axe for me — the marginally greater dps against soft targets doesn’t make up for the lack of CC and armoured damage, so imo it’ll always sit firmly in the hammer’s shadow. But eh, that’s fine. It’s still a very solid weapon.

The nerf to DR probably hit IB the hardest, but was also the most necessary. I mean, even with the changes I can still sit in gas/warpfire and regen temp health faster than they can take it away. Prior to the nerf you were sitting at like 80% DR with just your ult and passive, which I always found ludicrous. He’s still so tanky that I don’t bother with the 20% extra health, because you generally don’t need it.

All told, I’m happy with the changes to IB. He had gotten very stale for me, and I’d pretty much played nothing but slayer for months when I played dwarf. The changes were just enough that I really began to enjoy playing him again.


That’s true, it makes sense to have an offensive talent to compete with a defensive one.

I find the ult regen talent is a pretty must pick talent, even when building for a tank, as it allows to ult more > which increases defense for your team etc. Especially now with the attack speed gromril it allows ib to get kills a bit quicker. A tank is allowed to dish out damage, but ib can do some great damage for a very very tanky class. Mostly the combination seems a bit strong to me, as he has super high dmg red and can also be very offensive without giving up much of his defenses. Not necessarilly a bad thing, just some thoughts of mine.

Ironbreaker is reasonably balanced but he has some talents that are up for debate.

Gromril Curse - When Gromril Armour is removed all nearby enemies are knocked back.

It’s hard to compete with Gromril Curse, even the new attack speed talent has a hard time competing with the utility, assurance and safety net Gromril Curse offers.
It can potentially ledge bosses, provide enough knockback for a safe revive or save Ironbreaker himself when he is grabbed.

50% atk speed = 20% uptime (can proc every 48 seconds)
40% atk speed = 25% uptime (can proc every 41 seconds)
30% atk speed = 30% uptime (can proc every 34 seconds)
20% atk speed = 37% uptime (can proc every 27 seconds)
10% atk speed = 50% uptime (can proc every 20 seconds)

The uptime of max attack speed helps balance out the huge 50% increase and it’s a good reward/incentive to avoid damage, players can purposely get hit to take advantage of the attack speed. The question is, is it competitive enough with Gromril Curse or does Gromril Curse need to be bought down a little?

I see a lot of players not using the drake weapons on IB, maybe they consider them cheesy, dislike how they play or think they’re bad. Whatever the case, I hope IB gets some love in terms of the drake weapons/talents to encourage players to use them more.

I typically used Drakegun + Recourseful for utility/ult regen but the nerfs to both of them has swayed me to alternatives.
“The Rolling Mountain” provides a lot of cooldown reduction but almost feels like a must pick; Impenetrable is a game changer on a long cooldown. The talent isn’t OP, it’s more so IB’s ult is too valuable not to take the talent.
(IB’s CD per hit is only 0.25, drakegun was probably a factor when they decided on that number)

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What do you think about the new crushing counter blow?

It’s not rewarding enough for what it is, Counter Blow slows down the gameplay pace too much.

10% power can make an impact on breakpoints depending on what career/build allies are running.
If it also procced on pushing, it might perform better and not slow down the pace.


I dont play IB much, so i didnt notice this until now. This slows down combat majorly (even after the buff to 10s)
Maybe let it get activated by push too?
That made HMs on block talent usefull. Should work here too.

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I love the new attack speed talent, especialy with 2h axe. I can’t tell if it’s op or not but the combination of that talent + CD reduction on melee kill + 20% power boost on ult allow you to face any threat. Patrols are a joke with this setup in cata. You get a free escape card almost every 2 minutes.

Compared to gromril Curse you’re way more proactive (playing aggressive thanks to the attack speed) instead of relaying on one more defensive ability. Since i like using 2h weapons on IB i’m kinda happy with this new talent, i personaly see no reason to not take that talent.

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Iron Breaker has always been solid. The new attack speed talent is basically my 3rd choice on that row. IB is fine in beta and fine in live. He really doesn’t need any tweaking.


Doesn’t it synergise well with his ultimate? You ult and block any attack untill you reach 5 stacks. That’s how i used it when playing with it, i didn’t really notice the impact it had on the other hand, but that’s also the case with the 20% power on ult. I agree that blocking outside of ultimate does slow down the pace a bit more.

Well, yes and no. While in ult you now have 65% DR, so attacking is usually better than just sitting around blocking, as the damage you take is probably quite low anyway.
And even then its only a 10/15s window on a 2 minute cooldown, which hardly justifies taking a talent for that Situation.

Thats the other side. 10% power (or even the 20% on ult as you mention) don‘t mean sh*t if you dont reach a Breakpoint with it. People usually build towards breakpoints, not 10% below. So only on bosses there will be actual benefit in most cases.
As a team buff, attack speed would probably work out better.

Even for yourself the 10% power are questionable when the other talent in that row gives you 10-15% most of the time just for not running away from your team.

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I would like to bring the assumption that IB “needs” to be a tank to discussion. I mean, why should that be his only option?

And I say this as somebody whos most played character is IB, by far. And as somebody who likes to play him really “tank”-y, mostly with a shield. (Because shields’ style is awesome, even apart from gameplay. Slamming a shield in rakis’ faces never gets old, and there is no better “Hah, screw you!” feeling than casually parrying a CW overhead before resuming hacking away at his kneecaps.)

His new talents don’t nescessarily make IB more powerful overall, but they do allow him to slightly change his playstyle and role. An IB built for offense as much as possible isn’t of a higher power level than a really tanky IB, but instead it’s more like a sidegrade than an upgrade.

I see no problem with that. Right now IB can make his kit synergise with a bigger part of his weapon arsenal, opening up more potential playstyles. It wasn’t super needed, but it’s nice to have nevertheless. A lot better than non-competitive tank talents, anyways.

What it comes down to in my opinion: It doesn’t really matter how a class is designed, there will always be potential ways to tweak / improve something, especially when you also take in account different directions you can take the class. Always. But at some point, you just need to say “Okay, it’s good enough now.” Else, you let the theoretical “perfect” become the enemy of the practical “good”. And as he is right now, IB is definitely “good” in any manner of that definition. He is powerful, versatile, has some true decisions about pros and cons when it comes to talent and weapon selection, but nothing he has is really gamebreaking or even overpowered. I think IB can do without messing with for a while. There are certainly other classes that could do with a tweak harder than IB, in any case.


I agree that he shouldn’t but it should be his primary role, sidegrade builds can and should exist, but they shouldn’t take over his tanky role as primary.

Would you not say his ‘ult regen on kill’ talent is a must pick, unless using a low kill weapon, like shield weapons?

I’m not asking for tweaks or changes. Just asking some opinions from more experienced ib players.

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I generally can do pretty fine without the cooldown on kill talent, even when playing 2H Hammer or 1H Axe or something. You generally don’t need to have your ult up all the time, and I feel it benefits Bardin’s weapons a lot more to liberally apply pushes when fighting, which prevents the talent from working.

I must admit I have hardly played IB without a shield for a while, though. And that talent row is actually a good example of what I meant in my last post: You really have a meaningful choice whether you want more ult or more stamina regen, and depending on the rest of your loadout both choices can mean either better offensive or defensive power. It’s a real interesting talent tree.

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Yea it depends how you look at it i guess. Personally i think attacking which reduces threats because you kill things, which in turn gives you more cdr, which allows you to ult more and have more uptime on your defensive boost + allows to give power % to the entire party. That is a clear win over more stamina, unless you are not capabable of attacking or, like you mentioned push alot. I forgot about weapons which use push attacks to be effective, in that case i guess the other ones are better, i don’t really know.

My friend, on shield weapons (especially the new H&S) more stamina means more offensive capability. There just are situations where an IB going ham and slamming stuff around is the only remedy for a team on the back foot, creating the ability to actually attack again instead of just trying not to die. I can promise you that the stamina talent results in more offense in those cases than an ult cooldown talent that won’t work when you need it (because you’ve had to spend stamina on push and block) anyways. The ult regen talent basically only works when you have everything in hand anyways, because else you’d have had to spend stamina. It’s not useless, don’t get me wrong, and it synergises with the AS on Gromril break and power on ult usage talents, making you a damage ignoring berserker with some loadouts, but in a lot of realistic scenarios in Cata(+) the case for the stamina talent is really strong as well. Or even stronger.


Ah yea i was talking about normal cata, i prefer not to include modded or twitch/deeds/weaves.
Yea it’s personal preference to be honest, i can see stam being good, but in normal cata i’m not in alot of situations where i have to push alot or where i’m out of stamina for a long period of time.

I use fire pistols and didn’t use the relevant talent in the past and don’t use it now either. The old one simply didn’t worth it. It didn’t feel I get anything by choosing it. The current talent is annoying because it reduces the damage when you are on low overheat. I don’t want neccessarily reach overheat all the time. For example when we are advancing on the map and shooting single enemies. The slowdown reducing part is good. Was there a slowdown in the live version at all?

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